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Thread: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Actually, infallible means incapable of error. Immutable means not capable of change. So basically what you are saying is that there is no right or wrong policy. It doesn't matter what they arbitrarily decide. Of course, JP2's statement flies in the face of that.
    You don't have to agree with it, I wouldn't expect you to "get it." I'm just telling you the Catholic doctrine on the subject. Infallibility does not mean immutability. It doesn't mean there is no right or wrong, it just means what is right for a particular time and place might not be wrong for another time and place. It's actually very reasonable if you think about it.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I don't even pretend to understand it all. But I do recall asking myself once, during a Dungeons and Dragons convention in Milwaukee, "Will this be a religion in 200 years?" Those people in attendance argued, debated, cussed and discussed as they spoke with undisputable certainty as to what each character represented, stood for, abilities and inabilities, as if they were reality.

    But I digress.
    meh.. D&Ders need to get off their butts and start doing something about it if they want to be counted as a religion.
    Jediism already have the second largest following in New Zealand.

    New Zealand
    Over 53,000 people listed themselves as Jedi in New Zealand's 2001 census. New Zealand had the highest per capita population of reported Jedi in the world that year, with 1.5% marking "Jedi" as their religion. The city of Dunedin had the highest population of reported Jedi per capita.[1] Statistics New Zealand treated Jedi responses as "Answer understood, but will not be counted". If Jedi were counted it would have been the second largest religion in New Zealand. The percentages of religious affiliations were:

    Christian: 58.9%
    No religion: 29.6%
    Object to answering: 6.9%
    Jedi: 1.5%
    Buddhism: 1.2%
    Hindu: 1.2%
    Jedi census phenomenon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Tedminator; 07-19-10 at 10:31 PM.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You don't have to agree with it, I wouldn't expect you to "get it." I'm just telling you the Catholic doctrine on the subject. Infallibility does not mean immutability. It doesn't mean there is no right or wrong, it just means what is right for a particular time and place might not be wrong for another time and place. It's actually very reasonable if you think about it.
    I would say it's very convenient. The Church is made up of men. Men are fallible. I can't believe that God would talk to the Pope and not mention all the abuse that was unknown but if 3 women get ordained the red phone rings off the hook.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I would say it's very convenient. The Church is made up of men. Men are fallible. I can't believe that God would talk to the Pope and not mention all the abuse that was unknown but if 3 women get ordained the red phone rings off the hook.
    I congratulate you on your beliefs. Catholics don't believe that either. The doctrine of infallibility does not entail that God actually talks to the Pope, infallibility is not the same thing as prophecy. Infallibility is more like the Holy Spirit working indirectly through the Church and the Pope, and both of those apply only in limited circumstances not to all actions of the Pope and the Church. Infallibility specifically does not mean the Pope cannot sin, indeed on Catholic doctrine the Pope is just as much as sinner as any other person.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    You are correct. I must admit that I was ignorant of that portion. The source I had been looking at for the text of this letter (which was the original one I saw when it first came out), had a second page that I had never looked at. That is my error, and I apologize for my ignorance.

    Here is the section to the victims:



    While, I'm not all that thrilled about the preachiness of the apology, you are correct that it is definitely more remorseful than how I had portrayed it.

    I must rethink my own views on this in light of this.
    No apologies necessary. I'm in kind of a similar situation in my marriage, only with the roles reversed. I'm Catholic, and my wife is an ex-Catholic. Just glad to know you're keeping an open mind.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    No apologies necessary. I'm in kind of a similar situation in my marriage, only with the roles reversed. I'm Catholic, and my wife is an ex-Catholic. Just glad to know you're keeping an open mind.
    Sometimes I think that Catholic/ex-Catholic is the most difficult type of "mixed marriage" in a cultural sense.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    If anyone thinks a woman should be a priest, they do not understand Sacramental Theology nor the fatherhood/priesthood connection.

    This is a fact: There will never be female priests in the Catholic Church. Period. Pope John Paull II's statement in Ordination Sacerdotalis on the matter was clarified by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith at the time as being Ex Cathedra. Therefore, it is permanent and will never change. Trust me on that.

    Quote:
    "....Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

    LINK: Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, John Paul II, 22 May 1994 - Apostolic Letter

    That, ladies and germs, is what we call an Infallible Staement, and is therefore Dei Fide and now part of the Deposit of Faith.
    Last edited by CatholicCrusadr; 07-01-11 at 06:59 AM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    I'm confused;when they equate the ordination of women to pedophilia, is that a criticism, or an endorsement?
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    I'm confused;when they equate the ordination of women to pedophilia, is that a criticism, or an endorsement?
    Neither. Its ignorance.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusadr View Post
    Neither. Its ignorance.
    Given the Catholic church's checkered history on the issue, I thought it was a pertinent question.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

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