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Thread: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Someone needs to use this quote as their signature.
    I thought this when I posted it.
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I thought this when I posted it.
    I put it in mine.
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Couldn't Jesus be "Jesus" without the penis? His penis didn't perform miracles that I'm aware of.
    The Church considers maleness and femaleness to be ontologically different and thus they are not interchangeable. The reason a priest cannot be female is philosophically based on this distinction, everything in the Eucharist has to be specific. The priest is standing in for Jesus, so the reasoning goes, the maleness of the priest is required by the same logic that wine must be used instead of, say, beer, or leavened bread instead of unleavened (which was actually cause for a schism!). I think you can make a very persuasive case that maleness is not something intrinsic to the priest's role in the sacrament, but it would take something of a sea-change in Church theology before such an argument would be mainstream.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I put it in mine.
    I see. It makes you look slimmer and younger.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The Church considers maleness and femaleness to be ontologically different and thus they are not interchangeable. The reason a priest cannot be female is philosophically based on this distinction, everything in the Eucharist has to be specific. The priest is standing in for Jesus, so the reasoning goes, the maleness of the priest is required by the same logic that wine must be used instead of, say, beer, or leavened bread instead of unleavened (which was actually cause for a schism!). I think you can make a very persuasive case that maleness is not something intrinsic to the priest's role in the sacrament, but it would take something of a sea-change in Church theology before such an argument would be mainstream.
    It's hard to change after claiming infallibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's hard to change after claiming infallibility.
    The doctrine of papal and Church infallibility are often misunderstood in this way. Change isn't as hard as you might think, or as illogical. "Infallibility" does not mean immutability.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    But what I don't want is for them to be raised in any church that has proven itself to be a danger to children and that has misogynistic ideals.
    The rate of child abuse in the Catholic Church is no higher than it is in any other denomination, and it's only about half the rate that exists in the general population. The Catholic Church gets more attention because its structure makes it more accountable. Its response in recent years has been a model for other institutions dealing with the same problem. It's fair to say you probably couldn't find a safer place for your kids today.

    The idea that men and women have different roles to fill in marriage, society, or the church isn't unique to Catholicism. Some may find it old-fashioned, while others may see wisdom in it, but to call it "misogynistic" seems like a drastic overstatement to me.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The doctrine of papal and Church infallibility are often misunderstood in this way. Change isn't as hard as you might think, or as illogical. "Infallibility" does not mean immutability.
    Actually, infallible means incapable of error. Immutable means not capable of change. So basically what you are saying is that there is no right or wrong policy. It doesn't matter what they arbitrarily decide. Of course, JP2's statement flies in the face of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    The rate of child abuse in the Catholic Church is no higher than it is in any other denomination, and it's only about half the rate that exists in the general population. The Catholic Church gets more attention because its structure makes it more accountable. Its response in recent years has been a model for other institutions dealing with the same problem. It's fair to say you probably couldn't find a safer place for your kids today.

    The idea that men and women have different roles to fill in marriage, society, or the church isn't unique to Catholicism. Some may find it old-fashioned, while others may see wisdom in it, but to call it "misogynistic" seems like a drastic overstatement to me.
    Wow, I can't believe you said this.

    Is the church handing over the child fondling priests to authorities?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Wow, I can't believe you said this.

    Is the church handing over the child fondling priests to authorities?
    Yes. According to the USCCB's Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People, "Dioceses/eparchies are to report an allegation of sexual abuse of a person who is a minor to the public authorities." They've also instituted background checks and abuse prevention training, including training for children.

    Those who say it's too little too late don't usually understand the context of the issue. Most of the cases are many decades old. Not only the Church but also the civil authorities have changed their policies in the last few years as they've become more aware of sexual abuse. For example, the idea that all allegations must be reported is very new in the secular law. I'm not even sure all states require it yet. There's also a whole different philosophy guiding today's policies. In the past, the Church would consult with psychologists and be told that the abusers could be cured and returned to duty. Public schools and the Boy Scouts did the same thing. The mental health profession has a different attitude now, and many institutions have had to develop new policies as a result.

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