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Thread: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Do you think it is possible for a human being like yourself to be able to completely understand such an entity and know everything about it?
    No, absolutely not. I don't believe any human being can understand 'such an entity...' including the pope and his bishops.

    @ Ludahai -- I agree with you that the Holy Spirit is seen to guide every Christian church. And every believer. As to your first assertion, it's the 'church tradition' I have a problem with. And that it would seem the Catholic Church reflects/interprets the Bible differently as time goes on.

    @ Buc -- Shall we throw out God's words in the Old Testament? Maybe just 'buy' Genesis? Or do we believe that Christ's mission was to change the promises and threats in the Old Testament?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The issue for me isn't me joining the Catholic church, I already left the Catholic church a long time ago.

    It's my wife's desire to raise our kids in the Catholic church.

    This was clarified very early on in this thread.
    You guys DID talk about that before you had kids, right?

    Ive always thought that raising children in ANY religion was pretty much fine. Teach kids values, build relationships and trust, and eventually (ultimately) let them choose for themselves. I get that it can be a conflict in families...but less so if it is dealt with in a healthy positive way in advance.

    BTW...Im not Catholic nor advocating one way or the other...

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You guys DID talk about that before you had kids, right?
    It's actually the reason we don't have kids yet.

    Ive always thought that raising children in ANY religion was pretty much fine. Teach kids values, build relationships and trust, and eventually (ultimately) let them choose for themselves. I get that it can be a conflict in families...but less so if it is dealt with in a healthy positive way in advance.
    The thing is, I don't want my kids to build relationships and trust with an ornginization that has proven itself to be a danger to children. Again, this was all explained earlier.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The issue for me isn't me joining the Catholic church, I already left the Catholic church a long time ago.
    The Vatican's decision is consistent with maybe 2000 years of Christianity.

    Why all of a sudden are you expressing this "feigned outrage" about female apostles, priests, etc when Scripture says nothing of the kind? God did not ordain women and the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church teaches that they are not to be ordained. God simply does not will it.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's actually the reason we don't have kids yet.



    The thing is, I don't want my kids to build relationships and trust with an ornginization that has proven itself to be a danger to children. Again, this was all explained earlier.
    One...smart decision to hold off on the kids thing...and I dont mean that in a flippant way. Ive seen far too many marriages that are simply irreconcilably damaged due to cultural conflicts...

    and Two...I know a LOT of Catholics...and Baptists...and school teachers...who arent pedophiles. I dont think the Catholic church advocates pedophilia in their canons...I DO get that they have ignored the problem and thats inexcusable. But I also know of families that are involved with their childrens lives and participate in church and never experience the problems others have. Healthy parental relationships is the greatest safeguard...Catholic church or any other setting..Boy Scouts...sports teams...whatever...it goes a long way to ensuring those children are NOT (as) vulnerable to attack and exploitation.

    And I get that Im just blathering...I am sure you know all this...

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The Vatican's decision is consistent with maybe 2000 years of Christianity.
    Then why do the other Christian sects allow female ministers and such?

    Why all of a sudden are you expressing this "feigned outrage" about female apostles, priests, etc when Scripture says nothing of the kind?
    I left the catholic church over 20 years ago, so the "all of a sudden" tripe you spew has no mertit in fact. Don't pretend to know me.

    As far as "feigned outrage" I don't think you actually know what that means.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You guys DID talk about that before you had kids, right?

    Ive always thought that raising children in ANY religion was pretty much fine. Teach kids values, build relationships and trust, and eventually (ultimately) let them choose for themselves. I get that it can be a conflict in families...but less so if it is dealt with in a healthy positive way in advance.

    BTW...Im not Catholic nor advocating one way or the other...
    Lol, the way you put that makes it sound so simple when really it's not.
    Another reason why when a couple are not of the same religion, it is a bit more difficult. Alot of negotiation and compromises has to occur to please both parties. Probably the main reason I haven't had a child.


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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    One...smart decision to hold off on the kids thing...and I dont mean that in a flippant way. Ive seen far too many marriages that are simply irreconcilably damaged due to cultural conflicts...

    and Two...I know a LOT of Catholics...and Baptists...and school teachers...who arent pedophiles. I dont think the Catholic church advocates pedophilia in their canons...I DO get that they have ignored the problem and thats inexcusable. But I also know of families that are involved with their childrens lives and participate in church and never experience the problems others have. Healthy parental relationships is the greatest safeguard...Catholic church or any other setting..Boy Scouts...sports teams...whatever...it goes a long way to ensuring those children are NOT (as) vulnerable to attack and exploitation.
    The issue here is that you are not separating Catholic people from the Catholic Church as an orginization, and I am.

    The Catholic Church, as an orginization, covered up pedophilia within their ranks for decades. That is a fact. What the church says in its canons don't mean **** in light of htis fact.

    I do agree with you that healthy parenting is the ultimate safeguard. When teh crap with Michael Jackson kept coming up, I often said "What kind of parent allows their child to be around Michael Jackson after he's had all of these accusations?"

    I heard many people say the same types of things. They'd say "I'd never let my kid be around that guy."

    Well, the Catholic Church, as an originization, has proven itself far more dangerous to children than even Michael Jackson was. The ****e they've vomitted out ove rthe past few years alone shows me that they aren't really interested in taking ful responsibility for their actions, and that is, for me, inexcusabel AND unforgivable. They haven't done **** to show me that they've changed. They'd rather try to sweep as much as they can under the rug.

    I do realize that, as individuals, the pedophile priests were, most likely, a minority of the total priest population. But that doesn't mean ****. Priests are people who a child is supposed to be able to trust. And they can't. Not only becasue of the minority that actually commited the acts, but because of the even more eggregious and disgusting actions taken by the Church to cover it all up when it happened and transfer priests around, trusting that they truly felt remose.

    Any orginization that has shown it can't be trusted to protect children from monsters within it's ranks is one that children should be kept away from at all costs, IMO.

    IMO, good parenting includes preventing children form being in situations that are known to be dangerous. Being around priests is known to be dangerous. A big reason that this issue with wanting female priests exists is because of teh vile and disgusting actions of the Church and it's male preists.

    Their constant, unremorseful refusal to end the policies which have made the Church a refuge for pedophiles for years makes the Church an orginization that is almost on par with NAMBLA, in my opinion.

    The Church's actions on this matter are a disgrace to the millions and millions of good Catholics in the world.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    I will try and ignore the immature personal attacks made against the Catholic religion. I am a Catholic, and whether or not you agree is your business, but hateful remarks are not welcomed.

    There are two primary reasons why the Catholic Church holds this position, and it is not about repressing women or any type of misogyny.
    1. Jesus did not ordain any women as apostles. A common response to this is that it would be against the culture of his time to do so, but that argument doesn't really make sense considering he associated with pretty much everyone his society rejected.
    2. The sacrament of holy orders into the priesthood requires ordained priests to act in the person of Christ, and Jesus Christ was male.

    Men and woman are equal in the eyes of God, but this equality is not synonymous with sameness.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I will try and ignore the immature personal attacks made against the Catholic religion. I am a Catholic, and whether or not you agree is your business, but hateful remarks are not welcomed.

    There are two primary reasons why the Catholic Church holds this position, and it is not about repressing women or any type of misogyny.
    1. Jesus did not ordain any women as apostles. A common response to this is that it would be against the culture of his time to do so, but that argument doesn't really make sense considering he associated with pretty much everyone his society rejected.
    2. The sacrament of holy orders into the priesthood requires ordained priests to act in the person of Christ, and Jesus Christ was male.

    Men and woman are equal in the eyes of God, but this equality is not synonymous with sameness.
    Well - both of those things sound quite prejudice, don't they?

    Most women hear "You cannot do ___ because you are a female" and connect that to misogyny, sexism, chauvinism or prejudice.

    If God/Jesus/whoever decided that men and women were or were not allowed to do same things because of their gender - then isn't that differential treatment, negatively?
    Is there anything *in* the catholic church that women can do and men cannot?

    Anytime someone holds your natural-born condition against you it is at least one of those things. If someone was born with a physical ailment or mental disorder - and then the Catholic Church said "because you were born mentally inept we cannot permit you to ___" then wouldn't an accusation of being prejudice, then, be accurate and understood?

    What if it was a race issue - and Jesus openly spoke out against race (which he doesn't, sure) but what if he did? It might be 'per the religion' but would it be acceptable?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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