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Thread: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    There is actually a difference. The bible never mentions that you can't eat meat on Fridays or that you have to go to confession. However, the bible does clearly state that women should not be priests.
    Hi, Buck -- my point was that there is much dogma in the church that is absurd. If we're going by The Bible, if that's really the standard, we'd all be blind and toothless, yes? Hey! Maybe that's the problem. ;-)
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Hi, Buck -- my point was that there is much dogma in the church that is absurd. If we're going by The Bible, if that's really the standard, we'd all be blind and toothless, yes? Hey! Maybe that's the problem. ;-)
    But there are at least two problems with simply going by the Bible.

    1. This limits God to a finite piece of literature. I would not DARE to even attempt to place any limitations on God whatsoever.
    2. It ignores the fact that Jesus said He would leave the Holy Spirit as a guide. If you go simply by the Bible, that implies the Christian and salvation story ENDED with the writing of the scriptures nearly 1900 years ago. This is both non-sensical and non-scriptural.
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I believe that's chi. Gods are something else entirely, discrete entities with their own preferences and agendas. Of course, any righteous god would be greatly concerned with the spiritual and moral health of his followers.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    I believe that he is a fallen angel, a former servant of the God of Abraham who rebelled against him. I have no dealings with him, so I have no means by which to determine whether he is malevolent or merely rebellious, but I would err on the side of caution and fear that trafficking with him might lead to irreparable spiritual harm. My dealings with those who claim to worship him-- as opposed to LaVeyan "Satanists"-- have certainly reinforced this suspicion.
    This is dead on. I haven't met a huge number of satanic followers because I avoid them for the precise reason that the ones I met were disturbed individuals. I understand their lighter precepts of self-indulgance but there is something psychospiritually off about them that I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe it's more of an intuition than an exact knowledge. I have never been afraid of the idea of Satan so I don't automatically have that aversion instilled in me, but I do now that I have met some of his followers.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But there are at least two problems with simply going by the Bible.

    1. This limits God to a finite piece of literature. I would not DARE to even attempt to place any limitations on God whatsoever.
    2. It ignores the fact that Jesus said He would leave the Holy Spirit as a guide. If you go simply by the Bible, that implies the Christian and salvation story ENDED with the writing of the scriptures nearly 1900 years ago. This is both non-sensical and non-scriptural.
    Re your #1, I don't understand what you mean here.
    Re your #2, Are you saying that the Pope (whoever is the Pope at any particular time) is the Holy Spirit?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    But man, by way of the Catholic Church and Pope John Paul II, attributed it to their God by making it an "Infallible" decree that they've not been granted the authority to do so.
    And if you disagree with that I STRONGLY advocate that you not join the Catholic church...

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Hi, Buck -- my point was that there is much dogma in the church that is absurd. If we're going by The Bible, if that's really the standard, we'd all be blind and toothless, yes? Hey! Maybe that's the problem. ;-)
    Assume that there is an extremely powerful and unique being. One that has existed forever and was/is capable of creating the entire universe. He specifically created intelligent beings on a planet and communicated with them. This being also exists outside of time as we know it. He knows everything that has happened and everything thats gonna happen. For him, it is all the same.

    Do you think it is possible for a human being like yourself to be able to completely understand such an entity and know everything about it?

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Re your #1, I don't understand what you mean here.
    Re your #2, Are you saying that the Pope (whoever is the Pope at any particular time) is the Holy Spirit?
    1. This was in response to the notion that the Bible IS Christianity and Christianity IS the Bible. However, Christianity and God are both much more than that. The so-called "dogma" is a reflection of the Bible AND Church tradition.

    2. The Pope is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides the Church as the body of believers.
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Hi, Buck -- my point was that there is much dogma in the church that is absurd. If we're going by The Bible, if that's really the standard, we'd all be blind and toothless, yes? Hey! Maybe that's the problem. ;-)
    No, not really. If you were only going by the old testament of the bible, then you may be right. But if you're going by the entirety of the bible, then not so much.

    Although I do like the idea of some catholic priests suffering through the eye for an eye bit. Maybe Take a little something off... I dunno.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I certainly agree with your assessment. I find it strange that people become obsessed with the minutia of doctrine to the exclusion of the fundamental moral precepts of their faith. I do not understand how a Christian who hates another Christian over a point of doctrine could possibly be walking in the grace of his God..

    I tend to agree with you, but would merely point out that there is much difference between "hates" and "strongly disagrees with".

    For instance... I have mentioned that I am not Catholic. I do not believe in the Papacy and oppose the idea that any man can speak directly for God except he do so by quoting scripture (and even that to be done cautiously, in proper context and humble awareness of our own fallibility in interpretation). I fear that Papist doctrines may have led many Catholics astray from the "best-possible" relationship with God.

    However, I still consider them to be my co-religionists, with whom I have far more in common than in difference. I do not hate them at all, though I am not overly fond of their leadership and hierarchy.

    Still, you will have noticed that I tend to back them up and speak in their favor when they are subject to what I would view as unjustified criticism. A Catholic and a Protestant certainly have far more common intrests than either does with a militant atheist.


    Christiandom, and its varied factions, have learned to coexist despite disagreements. We've learned to recognize those differences do not constitute reason to go to war with each other.

    Given the history of the world, where everything from tribal affiliation, language or dialect, religion or legal system, political structure or nationality or economic preference or skin color or any damn thing has been used as an excuse for war for millenia, I think we're doing rather well to have learned to live and let live.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    And if you disagree with that I STRONGLY advocate that you not join the Catholic church...
    The issue for me isn't me joining the Catholic church, I already left the Catholic church a long time ago.

    It's my wife's desire to raise our kids in the Catholic church.

    This was clarified very early on in this thread.
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