Page 13 of 22 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 211

Thread: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

  1. #121
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    12-06-17 @ 11:17 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,191

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Biblically the issue is actually up for debate and interpretation. Many denominations, not just Catholic, do not ordain women because they believe the Bible opposes it.
    The Bible is the word of God, right? Does God view them as equal or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  2. #122
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Next time, use the full quote even though it destroys your argument. It's a more honest debate tactic.

    Unnecessary. The only one employing dishonest debating tactics is you. You bolded the phrase "founded on the written Word of God, constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium" as if it was something I intentionally left out. Far from it! That is exactly as I paraphrased "Although it was rested on the infallibility of the Church (not papal infallibility)," and is entirely in line with everything I have heretofore been saying, namely that the prohibition against the ordination of women is derived from liturgical tradition.

    Whether "they left the wording open so that they could pretend that God allowed them to have that authority later if they absolutely had to" is really irrelevant. You can characterize it that way if you wish, but it does not detract from the fact that the wording is there. The entirety of the commentary only goes to bolster my point that you are incorrect when you allege "that it is attributed to God." The prohibition is "founded on the written Word of God," (scripture), "constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church," (liturgical tradition) "it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium" (the infallibility of the Church).

    Next time, try to read the quote in order to understand that it destroys your own argument before you indulge in dishonest debate tactics yourself.

  3. #123
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    12-06-17 @ 11:17 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,191

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Wait. If either decision is "infallible" then it obviously doesn't matter does it?

    Arbitrary decisions are infallible.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  4. #124
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Unnecessary. The only one employing dishonest debating tactics is you. You bolded the phrase "founded on the written Word of God, constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium" as if it was something I intentionally left out. Far from it! That is exactly as I paraphrased "Although it was rested on the infallibility of the Church (not papal infallibility)," and is entirely in line with everything I have heretofore been saying, namely that the prohibition against the ordination of women is derived from liturgical tradition.

    Whether "they left the wording open so that they could pretend that God allowed them to have that authority later if they absolutely had to" is really irrelevant. You can characterize it that way if you wish, but it does not detract from the fact that the wording is there. The entirety of the commentary only goes to bolster my point that you are incorrect when you allege "that it is attributed to God." The prohibition is "founded on the written Word of God," (scripture), "constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church," (liturgical tradition) "it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium" (the infallibility of the Church).

    Next time, try to read the quote in order to understand that it destroys your own argument before you indulge in dishonest debate tactics yourself.
    PJII was speaking from his position of Papal infalibility when he made his decree that they did not have the authority to ordain Women as priests. I proved this earlier when I first quoted the Catechism and his word choice.

    The reason your choice to exclude the portion is dishonest is because your paraphrasing left out the very point I was making:

    "But man, by way of the Catholic Church and Pope John Paul II, attributed it to their God by making it an "Infallible" decree that they've not been granted the authority to do so."

    Do I have to explain what AND means? Both the Church AND JPII made it an infallible decree. And they did attribute it to God.

    Your dishonest tactics are easy to expose.

    I suggest creating yet another strawman so that you can pretend they haven't been exposed.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 07-16-10 at 08:33 PM.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  5. #125
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,157

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    The Bible is the word of God, right? Does God view them as equal or not?

    Biblically, God is no respecter of persons (that is, their status, etc... presumably gender also.)

    It is, I think, safe to say that God recognizes that men and woman are different. There are things men generally do better; there are things that women generally do better.

    There are some passages that some take as an exclusion of women from ordination. Some disagree with this interpretation of those passages. I am not entirely decided in my own mind which camp I side with in this dispute, yet.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #126
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    PJII was speaking from his position of Papal infalibility when he made his decree that they did not have the authority to ordain Women as priests.
    Incorrect. The Ordinatio was specifically not rested on papal infallibility, but on the infallibility of the Church and liturgical tradition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I suggest creating yet another strawman so that you can pretend they haven't been exposed.
    I'd suggest that it is difficult not to make a "straw man" out of your arguments when they are ever shifting from the repeated fallacy of equivocation. If I am making a straw man it is only out of an attempt to inject some coherence into your position, but perhaps that was too presumptuous of me. I apologize.

    In the interest of having a more fruitful discussion, perhaps your could amend and clarify your fallacious argument. Is this your argument:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    But man, by way of the Catholic Church and Pope John Paul II, attributed it to their God by making it an "Infallible" decree that they've not been granted the authority to do so.
    Or this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's exactly as I said earlier. They left the wording open so that they could pretend that God allowed them to have that authority later if they absolutely had to. Doesn't change the fact that it is attributed to God.
    So are you arguing that the Church does claim the authority or does not claim the authority? I encourage you to pick one, and perhaps attempt to debate honestly for a change.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 07-16-10 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #127
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Guy - The Vatican's decision on this matter is consistent with how many years of Christianity?

  8. #128
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Guy - The Vatican's decision on this matter is consistent with how many years of Christianity?
    Good question, I'd say it depends on who you ask. Arguably the prohibition against female ordination goes back to the very beginning of the Church, but there is some very good evidence that the ordination of women to the diaconate was commonplace in the early Church. But there is no serious contention that women were ever ordained to the priesthood, so in that respect it is consistent with a liturgical tradition going back to the beginning of the Church.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 07-16-10 at 10:04 PM.

  9. #129
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    12-06-17 @ 11:17 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,191

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Biblically, God is no respecter of persons (that is, their status, etc... presumably gender also.)

    It is, I think, safe to say that God recognizes that men and woman are different. There are things men generally do better; there are things that women generally do better.

    There are some passages that some take as an exclusion of women from ordination. Some disagree with this interpretation of those passages. I am not entirely decided in my own mind which camp I side with in this dispute, yet.
    Women are generally better communicators and have traditionally been the ones to serve food.

    I have trouble understanding how something that is so open to interpretation could be infallible.
    Last edited by Thorgasm; 07-16-10 at 10:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  10. #130
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Women are generally better communicators and have traditionally been the ones to serve food.
    Personally, I think the Church has made a big mistake in ignoring and downplaying the role of women in the early Church, if for no other reason than that it is simply ahistorical. The earliest Masses was performed at the dinner table in private homes.

Page 13 of 22 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •