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Thread: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

  1. #91
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It's a Catholic matter, strictly internal to that church and having no effect outside of those who are voluntarily part of it, and I'm not Catholic.... so I don't much care.
    I care not a whit.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Exactly. My entire problem with organized religion, and the Catholic faith in particular. ... God invites me to his communion table...not the Catholic Church.
    In that case, why have a problem with Catholicism or any organized religion? If God alone decides who belongs with him, their exclusionary doctrine has no power to deprive anyone of his presence; it only affects those who believe in that doctrine, and only then to the degree that their own behavior pleases or displeases God. Those who serve God faithfully will be rewarded regardless of what the Church has to say on the matter, and those who defy God will be punished regardless.

    I believe that Catholicism, and indeed the vast majority of Abrahamic faiths, encourages people to do what pleases their God; from my perspective, the moral differences between them are very small and very minor. Only the most corrupt sects lead their followers away from God's grace, and those sects are rightfully condemned by nearly everybody regardless of their faith.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 07-16-10 at 12:22 PM.

  3. #93
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    She isn't required to do ****. She chooses to do it.
    Ah, the key word chooses. No one is forcing her. She voluntarily has chosen a path for herself just like, I don't need science to prove my faith. I have sufficient evidence to take what is unproven and unprovable on faith.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Bah, they should allow women to be priests and they should go back to allowing priests to be married. That one changed in the Middle Ages and was more about transfer of property than anything else.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    That is the grey area. "Fact" (or scripture) can be construed in many different ways. The same verse can mean different things to different people/religions. So who is right?
    Science has not disproven anything in the Bible. In fact, there have been numerous examples where archeologists said the Bible was wrong historically....No Pontius Pilate, No Sodom or Gomorrah, but wallah! These same people found the cornerstones bearing the name of Pilate and confirmed that he was Procurator of Judea during the time of Christ. They also found the dead cities submerged in the Dead Sea with scorch marks on the stones.

  6. #96
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Bah, they should allow women to be priests and they should go back to allowing priests to be married. That one changed in the Middle Ages and was more about transfer of property than anything else.
    Good point, also they should give everyone free ice cream!

  7. #97
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You are equivocating your position now.
    False. I didn't equivocate. You created a strawman, and when I made it clear I wasn't arguing the same thing as your strawman, you claim that I equivocated.

    When in truth, it was your strawman that did. I'd go beat him up again if I were you.

    What you said previously is that the Church considers women "unequal in the eyes of God."
    Let's be specific, because that's not what I said. What I said was:

    "I will not raise my daughters to think that they are not fully and completely equal in the eyes of their God."

    Notice, I'm not talking about seeing herself as equally deserving of God's love or anything related to spiritual inferiority.

    From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.... the infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council

    The idea that women are excluded from acting in persona Christi Capitis is considered the infallible word of God because of John Paul II:

    "...in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren, I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

    The Church has no authority to make women priests. The only reasonable assumption to make regarding this lack of authority is that GOD does not want women to be priests. The parts of those two quotes that I bolded tell the tale. This claim is considered Infallible and, thus, it was God who made the claim.

    So, even though I didn't actually say the "Church considers women "unequal in the eyes of God." (although for some reason you've said that I did), I've just proven that the Catholic Church has taught that it must be God that doesn't want women to become priests, because of a statement that boils down to: 'don't blame us... our hands are tied on the issue'.

    This means that when my daughter is taught that she is equally capable to acting in persona Christi Capitis, it is because God has decided she is not [I]equally capable[/I by preventing the church from having the authority to grant her that capability.

    So yeah. Even though I didn't say that before, the the Catholic church does teach that women are unequal in the eyes of the Lord. It's not my fault they did that.

    If I don't want my daughter to think that, then I have to raise her not to believe the Catholic Church and papal decrees and such.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Ah, the key word chooses. No one is forcing her. She voluntarily has chosen a path for herself
    And she also chose to marry me and have children with me. She can have her faith. I do not seek to take that choice from her.

    So as I said, she isn't required to do ****.

    just like, I don't need science to prove my faith. I have sufficient evidence to take what is unproven and unprovable on faith.
    Bully for you.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #99
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    False. I didn't equivocate.
    Incorrect, you have equivocated a number of times, and you seem to have trouble keeping your own position straight. I am happy to correct you on any of your numerous misunderstandings about the Church, but I will not tell you how to feel about the teachings of the Church, that is your business. But you should examine your own logic and see where it is faulty, and where you have repeatedly equivocated as to what you mean by "equal" and what you mean by "in the eyes of God," the meaning of which seems to depend on what you feel like attacking at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The Church has no authority to make women priests. The only reasonable assumption to make regarding this lack of authority is that GOD does not want women to be priests.
    This is incorrect, as I said earlier the prohibition of female ordination is rooted in liturgical tradition and is a doctrinal matter, and is therefore subject to change. Thus, it does not warrant the assumption that "God does not want women to be priests." Though it entails that women are not equal from a sacramental standpoint, this is a very different matter. I see that you have pivoted your point once again, apparently to avoid admitting to your earlier mistake, which is fine. I take this as tacit acknowledgment that you were wrong.

    Perhaps your vitriol is warranted, like I said, that is your business, but you are nevertheless mistaken. The Catholic teaching is that God regards both men and women equally.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 07-16-10 at 02:50 PM.

  10. #100
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    Re: Catholics angry as church puts female ordination on par with sex abuse

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    .



    Bully for you.
    lol...You remind me of the flick "Coming to America", the part were Eddie Murphy is told to go to church to pick up a good woman..

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