Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 50

Thread: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

  1. #31
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It would be bigoted for the Argentinian government to impose upon everyone their secular morals and their inclusion of homosexual unions into the marriage of definition.

  2. #32
    Global Moderator
    Truth will set you free
    digsbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Metro Washington DC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,951

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I use the word to expose the hypocrisy that many on the pro GM side believe regarding those on the anti-GM side. Many believe that those who oppose gay marriage are bigoted, and that it is bigoted to impose our morals on others. However, in this case they are being bigoted in that they are imposing their morals upon everyone else. And I know what bigotry means.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigotry
    big·ot·ry   [big-uh-tree] Show IPA
    –noun, plural -ries.
    1.
    stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
    2.
    the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.
    It is stubborn and complete intolerance of another belief/opinion (anti-GM) for the pro-GM group to impose their beliefs upon everyone. They are intolerant of the majority's belief, and therefore impose theirs against the majority's will.
    Last edited by digsbe; 07-16-10 at 02:36 AM.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  3. #33
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Marriage is a social, religious, and legal institution.
    Marriage is only a legal institution now days, since it has tax benefits and legal benefits. By denying it to a part of the population who does not choose to marry one of the opposite sex is discrimination at the highest level. It is no different than segregation or apartheid. A part of the population is being discriminated against base on a sexual preference. And in the end, when segregation and apartheid were dismantled it was against the will of the voting population too, but the politicians knew that it was the right thing to do.

    Any social and religious aspects of marriage is between you, your partner, family and the religion of your choice.. nothing more, nothing less.
    Last edited by PeteEU; 07-16-10 at 05:05 AM.
    PeteEU

  4. #34
    Baby Eating Monster
    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    18,709
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    That would hurt innocent people. Legalizing gay marriage hurts NO ONE.
    There's a difference between not recognizing or encouraging their relationships and hurting them. Marriage is a social institution that serves society's needs, so expanding that institution to cover other relationships needs to be justified in terms of those needs; "it doesn't hurt anyone" isn't sufficient reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Marriage is only a legal institution now days... Any social and religious aspects of marriage is between you, your partner, family and the religion of your choice.. nothing more, nothing less.
    The law is a fundamentally moral organ. It exists to uphold the moral order of society, and thus it should reflect the social-- and yes, even the religious-- attitudes of society.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 07-16-10 at 07:59 AM.

  5. #35
    Student Yossarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Last Seen
    02-28-12 @ 05:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    258

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    ... and thus it should reflect the social-- and yes, even the religious-- attitudes of society.
    Assuming, of course, that 'society' as an aggregate can be said to have certain religious attitudes that apply equally to all its members.

    If that is not the case (i.e. if you have religious plurality) then I cannot fathom how religion and moral order could intersect at any fundamental level.

  6. #36
    Baby Eating Monster
    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    18,709
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Assuming, of course, that 'society' as an aggregate can be said to have certain religious attitudes that apply equally to all its members.

    If that is not the case (i.e. if you have religious plurality) then I cannot fathom how religion and moral order could intersect at any fundamental level.
    There are always members of society who disagree with the prevailing beliefs and attitudes of the rest of the population. Religious beliefs-- of one flavor or another-- form the basis of most peoples' moral values, thus form a large portion of the basis of society's moral order. Even nations that enjoy religious plurality-- and as a member of a minority religion, I certainly enjoy the religious plurality of our society-- have a certain religious character that influences their moral order.

  7. #37
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    The law is a fundamentally moral organ. It exists to uphold the moral order of society, and thus it should reflect the social-- and yes, even the religious-- attitudes of society.
    Disagree fully. You can get "married" without the church or any religious/moral ceremony or bindings. I know people who have chosen to get married not because of the moral or religious aspects or societies pressures, but because they needed to get the legalities involved settled. To them getting married was nothing more than signing a piece of paper that then made it possible for their children to inherit and so on. It is basically today a contract between two people, that results in tax incentives and other rights. I also know people who got divorced because of legal technicalities that made it more profitable than staying married. The instituation of marriage is nothing but a religious pipe dream now days.

    Now in the past it was a purely religious and moral event, but now days in the 21st century it has been broken down into legal technicalities that makes married folk different than non married folk living together. And that is why denying homosexuals the "bliss" of marriage is wrong... in fact denying these rights to people who dont want to get married but live in a loving relationship is wrong, but that is how our tax and legal system has been influenced by religious dogma and open discrimination.
    PeteEU

  8. #38
    Baby Eating Monster
    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    18,709
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Disagree fully. You can get "married" without the church or any religious/moral ceremony or bindings.
    And you can just as easily get married without the State's involvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is basically today a contract between two people, that results in tax incentives and other rights.
    The existence of those tax incentives and other rights says two things: one, that marriage serves a purpose that the State recognizes and encourages, and two, that the State is a party to the marriage-- or the contract, if you prefer. The State thus has a legitimate interest and a legitimate authority in determining which marriages it will recognize, and should exercise their authority according to the purposes that marriage is intended to serve. The problem is that there is a schism within society over what those purposes are-- and a more fundamental problem in that almost none of the advocates for or against gay marriage are willing to address that schism or even articulate their position on what marriage is and what purpose it serves.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The instituation of marriage is nothing but a religious pipe dream now days.
    Then it serves no purpose at all and should be abolished. Why fight for the expansion of an institution you don't even believe in?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    ... in fact denying these rights to people who dont want to get married but live in a loving relationship is wrong, but that is how our tax and legal system has been influenced by religious dogma and open discrimination.
    It is funny that you speak of marriage in terms of contracts and legalities, and then make reference to "love". If marriage is nothing but a legal technicality, why should love have anything to do with it? And for that matter, why should the benefits of a contract ever be extended to people unwilling to enter into that contract?

  9. #39
    Sage
    Arcana XV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Geneva, Switzerland and Rochester, NY
    Last Seen
    10-22-17 @ 10:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,412

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Regardless, pretty much the only places that legalize homosexual marriages do so at a senate level and not at a popular level. I wonder what the public opinion of gay marriage in Argentina is.
    68,6% are for it.
    29,6% against.
    1,8% don't know or don't care.

    Source: latest poll conducted by Analogías, leading firm in public opinion investigations. If you understand Spanish, the complete study is here:

    Analogías - Investigación y Estrategia - novedades
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  10. #40
    Sage
    kaya'08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    British Turk
    Last Seen
    05-12-14 @ 01:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    6,363

    Re: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage

    As PeteEU said, marriage is a legal institution. The definition of marriage as a union between man and woman is a religious definition only.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •