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Thread: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

  1. #41
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    No he was apparently selling guns with an expired license which apparently is illegal.
    more facts are required to determine if you or digsbe is correct.

    I will tell you more than a few cops seize guns for the purpose of taking them for their own use.

    most people won't hire an attorney and sue the cops over a 500 dollar glock.

    I wish more people would-this sort of crap happens alot.



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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The government had no right to do this. This man has broken no laws, and it's his Constitutional right to own those guns. No laws were borken, and it was none of the police's business to do this. They need to return the guns, and the cops who did this should have charges pressed against them. It's against the law for our government to do such a thing.

    Actually it is possible that he has violated fed law about too-much-selling-without-an-FFL. That will have to be hashed out in court, and the devil is in the details.

    However, I've seen and heard enough, from credible sources, about ATF abuses, bad raids based on faulty info; guns seized then the owner is acquitted but finds it nearly impossible to recover his property, and etc... based on no more info than I presently have, my sympathy is with the citizen until it is proven that he's committed some mala in se.

    Odds are that everyone on this forum has unwittingly committed a crime punishable by imprisonment, or even a felony. There are so many thousands laws on the books, and some of them are so broadly or vaguely written (or lacking in common sense), that it is almost impossible to be fully "law abiding" these days.

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  3. #43
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more facts are required to determine if you or digsbe is correct.

    I will tell you more than a few cops seize guns for the purpose of taking them for their own use.

    most people won't hire an attorney and sue the cops over a 500 dollar glock.

    I wish more people would-this sort of crap happens alot.
    Well Harry's article says that he sold guns to undercover agents across state borders without a license. And added to that selling guns are a show without license is a no no, but I agree more information is needed, but so far it sounded like the had a legitimate reason to act.

  4. #44
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Well Harry's article says that he sold guns to undercover agents across state borders without a license. And added to that selling guns are a show without license is a no no, but I agree more information is needed, but so far it sounded like the had a legitimate reason to act.
    maybe so but I also note that the ATF doesn't have the greatest record when it comes to actually following the law. The Branch Davidian Debacle was something that should have-in my opinion-caused that bureuacracy to be permanently eliminated.



  5. #45
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Well Harry's article says that he sold guns to undercover agents across state borders without a license. And added to that selling guns are a show without license is a no no, but I agree more information is needed, but so far it sounded like the had a legitimate reason to act.
    Not jumping your case here but federal gun laws are completely moronic in a lot of cases.

    Having this gun in this configuration will make you a felon.



    In this, it won't.



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    Because the former has too many parts not made in America.
    That's it, they function exactly the same.
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    IMHO, I don't care if the guy had a million guns at his home. If he was committing no crime with them, then he has every right to have them.

    So, a quick question for you: Which is more dangerous, a guy with 1,000 guns, who has committed no crime, or a government that wants to take them away, without any evidence that a crime has been committed?

    Article is here.
    God I hate the ATF. Needs to be disbanded. It doesn't seem like he did anything wrong, why would they take his ****. Well at least they didn't burn his house down with him still inside. The ATF is known to do that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    God I hate the ATF. Needs to be disbanded. It doesn't seem like he did anything wrong, why would they take his ****. Well at least they didn't burn his house down with him still inside. The ATF is known to do that.
    T-shirts seen at gun clubs

    I) IS YOUR CHURCH ATF APPROVED

    2) Alcohol tobacco and firearms-should be a convenience store's stock not a federal agency

    3) Alcohol, tobacco and firearms-who is bringing the chips?



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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    God I hate the ATF. Needs to be disbanded. It doesn't seem like he did anything wrong, why would they take his ****. Well at least they didn't burn his house down with him still inside. The ATF is known to do that.
    What do you propose for handling regulation of the ATF's jurisdiction?

    The ATF, like most enforcement agencies, is often under-valued because we DONT see their results directly.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Here is a link to a more complete story.

    ATF seizes guns in raid of East Mesa home

    The guy was an FFL holder, it expired in 06.
    He was still selling guns, although those guns aren't really meant or usually used for criminal purposes.
    All he did wrong was not renew a sellers license, which in my opinion is bull**** because it doesn't do anything to stop crime.
    But, wait, wait...

    So, you're saying he was committing a crime? He was breaking the law? Just like those crossing the boarder illegally, shouldn't we try to stop him from breaking the law? And if we catch him, shouldn't we prosecute him--confiscate his illegal guns, and send him to jail. Don't start parsing and attempting to justify his breaking of the law--you sound like the pro-illegals saying "they just want to work".

    "The gun regs aren't fair" Boo-hoo... "There's too much paperwork..." Boo-hoo... "They just want their gun rights..."

    BTW-the notion that the guns he was selling illegally wouldn't be used for criminal purposes is the most laughably stupid comment I've heard all week.

    Current gun regs don't work because the NRA has seen that they've been watered down and now we're left with gaping gun show loopholes. The current black/grey market for illegal handguns exists because of the 1990's NRA push back. Pragmatic federal gun laws have become the third rail of politics. Mayor's and police chiefs all over the country are asking for better enforcement of fed gun regs.

    This scumbag in Mesa is just spit in the ocean. Call me when they've seized a million illegal guns.

    And if the minutemen jokers who patrol the boarder are so damned concerned with federal law, why don't they turn in all their own illegal handguns and full-autos??.... Yeah, didn't think so. They ignore the federal laws that aren't convenient while chasing after unarmed Mexicans...
    Last edited by hazlnut; 07-15-10 at 05:26 AM.

  10. #50
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    But, wait, wait...

    So, you're saying he was committing a crime? He was breaking the law? Just like those crossing the boarder illegally, shouldn't we try to stop him from breaking the law? And if we catch him, shouldn't we prosecute him--confiscate his illegal guns, and send him to jail. Don't start parsing and attempting to justify his breaking of the law--you sound like the pro-illegals saying "they just want to work".

    "The gun regs aren't fair" Boo-hoo... "There's too much paperwork..." Boo-hoo... "They just want their gun rights..."

    BTW-the notion that the guns he was selling illegally wouldn't be used for criminal purposes is the most laughably stupid comment I've heard all week.

    Current gun regs don't work because the NRA has seen that they've been watered down and now we're left with gaping gun show loopholes. The current black/grey market for illegal handguns exists because of the 1990's NRA push back. Pragmatic federal gun laws have become the third rail of politics. Mayor's and police chiefs all over the country are asking for better enforcement of fed gun regs.

    This scumbag in Mesa is just spit in the ocean. Call me when they've seized a million illegal guns.

    And if the minutemen jokers who patrol the boarder are so damned concerned with federal law, why don't they turn in all their own illegal handguns and full-autos??.... Yeah, didn't think so. They ignore the federal laws that aren't convenient while chasing after unarmed Mexicans...
    What the hell does immigration have to do with this?

    You don't know a thing about current gun laws either.
    It shows.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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