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Thread: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    They were seized because he was selling them without a license. He committed a crime involving those guns, and they were taken as evidence. I've got no problem with it.
    Last edited by molten_dragon; 07-13-10 at 09:26 PM.
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If I had that many guns, I'd line them all up and connect all their triggers via some sort of complicated string device, and fire them all at the same time.

    Bring hearing protection.
    Why, what purpose would that serve?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If I had that many guns, I'd line them all up and connect all their triggers via some sort of complicated string device, and fire them all at the same time.

    Bring hearing protection.
    So what you're saying then, is that you'd fire all of your guns at once?

    Would you then proceed to explode into space?
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Why, what purpose would that serve?
    Wanton destruction of targets.

    Wait, you mean what reasonable purpose?
    Education.

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    So what you're saying then, is that you'd fire all of your guns at once?

    Would you then proceed to explode into space?
    That sure would be wild.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Why, what purpose would that serve?
    Awesome is a purpose unto itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    That sure would be wild.
    I guess you were just born that way.
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    federal laws on guns

    1) there is no national gun registration save for Class III weapons (machine guns, SBR's etc)

    2) an FFL holder can receive firearms in the mail, receive firearms from both residents and non-residents of the state in which they do business and sell in any part of the state where they have a license unless local laws prohibit that. (ie a dealer with a store in cincinnati Ohio can sell in Toledo)

    3) an FFL can sell long guns to citizens of adjacent states but can only sell handguns to legal residents of his own state

    4) FFL dealers must conduct the instant background check

    5) Non dealers can sell their own guns but if they sell more than a few-(this is a jury question) they can be charged with dealing firearms without a license. Federally, private sellers do not have to-and cannot-conduct a background check. However, it is illegal for a private seller to sell anyone a gun who is not a resident of the same state, or is a prohibited person (ie under age, a felon, a fugitive)

    6) it is a factual issue at trial whether the person knew or should have known that the person he sold the weapon to is a prohibited person.

    7) if a private person buys a gun it is presumed he bought it for resale if he sells it within a day. If he holds it for more than a day and then sells it-it is a presumption (that can be overcome) that the gun was bought for his collection. Thus if you are a private seller at a gun show and someone sells you a colt 45 and you then sell it to another person at the show a couple hours later, you have engaged in an unlicensed act of gun dealing which is illegal

    If you have a license and give it up or fail to renew it, you have certain duties as to the 4473 documents you collected in the course of your business.

    If you bought guns on your FFL and give up your license and continue to sell the guns, I would argue you are engaged in the impermissible dealing of firearms-especially if you sell several at a time and the prosecutorial guidelines-at least in my district-are consistent with that meaning someone doing that will be charged and the Grand Jury will most likely investigate the activity.



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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If I had that many guns, I'd line them all up and connect all their triggers via some sort of complicated string device, and fire them all at the same time.

    Bring hearing protection.
    Heh. That sounds like fun.

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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    The government had no right to do this. This man has broken no laws, and it's his Constitutional right to own those guns. No laws were borken, and it was none of the police's business to do this. They need to return the guns, and the cops who did this should have charges pressed against them. It's against the law for our government to do such a thing.
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    Re: ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The government had no right to do this. This man has broken no laws, and it's his Constitutional right to own those guns. No laws were borken, and it was none of the police's business to do this. They need to return the guns, and the cops who did this should have charges pressed against them. It's against the law for our government to do such a thing.
    No he was apparently selling guns with an expired license which apparently is illegal.

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