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Thread: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I can kinda see the point with the headline. It does create an impression that the facts of the story don't bear out. However, I don't think it is a FOX thing, I think it is a paid media thing. For profit media companies(ie almost all of them) want ratings, want sales, want page views. A headline like "Group Finds That A Few People Illegally Voted, Maybe" is not going to get that, but suggesting an election went the wrong way will.
    I agree with the motive. But its still a LIE to sensationalize the story. What was the report's findings? That cons voted illegally. Did it effect the election results? The study says they cannot demonstrate that and there is no evidence to show that. See their own statement.

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    No you don't. The finding is what the authors found in the report. They set the dimensions of the results. The authors say that they have evidence that some felons voted illegally in two countiesl. The authors DO NOT FIND that this action had any effect on helping or hurting one candidate. Don't be dense. If their headline had simply been the election may have been effected by voting irregularities. That's NOT A LIE. They chose to include that the study stated that. THAT IS A LIE.

    Fox came up with the headline that it may have effected the election. This was NOT in the findings. Read the report. Read the response by the people who did the report. Its a lie and an exaggeration by Fox to claim that the report FOUND evidence that it pushed Franken to the victory. It just as easily could have made the results closer than they should have been. However, that is not the FINDING of the report either. Saying that the report FOUND this possibility is a LIE.
    Try reading my post one more time, especially the quoted line in bold (my emphasis).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    Really? Can you show me where they lied with the headline?

    FOXNews.com - Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds

    "Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds"

    What part of that headline is a lie? Felons did vote illegally. And if 90 % of every felon that voted illegally voted for Franken, then it did give Franken the win. There is no way of knowing how every felon (who again, voted illegally) voted, but it is statistically possible. So again, what part of the headline was a lie?
    The title of the article is not a lie, period. Is it sensationalism and grossly pointing out the political lean of FOX News - absolutely. But you can't seem to differentiate between the two. You come across as nothing more than a petty FOX News basher who gives MSNBC a free pass when they do far worse than this. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe you can point out for me where you called MSNBC for sensationalizing a story by misrepresenting the facts when they did this - YouTube - MSNBC is Exposed of doctoring video and inciting race baiting..

    You can hate FOX News all you want, but you should watch it more often. I watch MSNBC, CNN, CNNHL, FOX and I read news stories from various websites. You are not going to get all the facts and the truth from any one individual media outlet because they all have an angle and an agenda to push - including FOX News. Simply attacking FOX News and calling them liars (when this has clearly been proven that this is not the case in this instance) is either being purposely deceitful on your behalf or intellectually dishonest on your behalf.

    I'll be eagerly awaiting your response where you can show me where you are equally objective when it comes to MSNBC or CNN or CBS or ABC, etc...
    Last edited by RedAkston; 07-18-10 at 11:51 PM.

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    I didn't see an "if" in the title of the article, did you?


    Ahh, I see now. It's just FOX News bashing and nothing more. There is nothing factually incorrect with the title of the article, and yet somehow it is a lie.
    It's a lie if that is not what the report had. Of course I suppose that depends on your definition of a lie. To me, something that is grossly misleading is a lie. As my mom used to say "a 10% lie is still a lie."

    By that standard, the headline could have been:

    Study finds felons voting illegally may have all voted for Franken's opponent
    Last edited by Groucho; 07-18-10 at 11:57 PM.

  4. #194
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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    Try reading my post one more time, especially the quoted line in bold (my emphasis).



    The title of the article is not a lie, period. Is it sensationalism and grossly pointing out the political lean of FOX News - absolutely. But you can't seem to differentiate between the two. You come across as nothing more than a petty FOX News basher who gives MSNBC a free pass when they do far worse than this. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe you can point out for me where you called MSNBC for sensationalizing a story by misrepresenting the facts when they did this - YouTube - MSNBC is Exposed of doctoring video and inciting race baiting..

    You can hate FOX News all you want, but you should watch it more often. I watch MSNBC, CNN, CNNHL, FOX and I read news stories from various websites. You are not going to get all the facts and the truth from any one individual media outlet because they all have an angle and an agenda to push - including FOX News. Simply attacking FOX News and calling them liars (when this has clearly been proven that this is not the case in this instance) is either being purposely deceitful on your behalf or intellectually dishonest on your behalf.

    I'll be eagerly awaiting your response where you can show me where you are equally objective when it comes to MSNBC or CNN or CBS or ABC, etc...

    Hahaha. I am sure you are eagerly waiting so you can have a hot debate and show me how bright you are. First of all I would like you to point out where I am criticizing "the political lean of Fox News". I know for a fact that TV news is structured so that more of their market will want to watch it. Who is Fox's biggest market? Conservatives. A story that Al Franken was elected illegally would perk up the ears of conservatives and get them all excited. I am assuming that you understand this by admitting this whole story is sensationalized beyond the truth.

    My strong opinion is that we owe it to ourselves to be smart consumers of anything we consume. We consume media and give it our valuable time. There is much media produced. And there is much media that is not worthy of our time. For me, the best journalism relies upon the facts and does its best to educate the public. As you watch any story or read any article, you have to be able to judge what it fact, what is opinion, what is being reported and what is being left out. You claim I should watch more Fox News, but my opinion is that we really don't need to watch more of the 24 hour news networks like the list you put down. You state a bunch of generalities in order to defend Fox and drag down other news sources. That is crap. The reality is that each news story is judged on its own merit on how its researched and presented. Regardless of the network, some stories are well done and some reporting is just sensationalism to get people to watch. Some are just designed to say what their market wants to hear.

    If someone posts this article as a subject worth discussing on this website, I would hope they would know as much about the article and how much truth it contained or whether most of it was sensationalism. This wasn't done. It became obvious when I read the actual report online and the OP chose the Fox coverage. Sometimes news organizations are good at summarizing a story and it makes sense to use the news filter. In this case, the report was only seven pages and not even that technical. ( with the exception of not explaining all of the Minnesota election laws and reporting systems which are unique in every state--of course that would be boring and C-Span type info). Fox News could have chosen that angle to better educate their consumers on this story. Instead, they chose the sensationalism which did a terrible job of educating people . In fact they didn't even discuss some of the shortcomings of their finding that Minnesota Majority came out with in their report. I know MM is not exactly a neutral group, but they were more honest than Fox was in discussing their own report.

    You are wrong in trying to push this discussion into an argument over which news agencies are the most honest. That is not the subject of this thread. The thread is about Minnesota Majority's report. Its unfortunate that the OP went with a Fox News coverage instead of pulling up the report and looking at the MM website.

    You make the statement that I should watch more of Fox News Network?? This is your main point? Or that all news is sensationalized but I should watch it anyway? What are you saying, that I want to work at being LESS informed? Really, we are probably helped by watching less television.

    It is examples like the Minnesota Majority Felon Report story that convinces me that Fox is not worthy of my time or consideration. There is too much out there to waste my time. Usually written news is best because it can cover a story much more in depth. I usually use NPR or C-Span as my regular media sources, primarily because they allow coverage from most sides and spend more time on an individual story. Yep, dull as paint drying, but generally more accurate. Now days you don't even have to watch or listen to an entire program since they will be up on their website. NPR even does a good job of putting the transcript online.

    _________________________________________________

    One more time. THe truth. Fox's headline says that the "findings of the report" is that illegal voting MAY have pushed Franken over the top. The truth is that the "finding of the report stated that illegal voting occurred and could not say that it helped any candidate.

    Bottom line: Its a lie regardless of the motive. Yet you know it and you want to keep watching?? I really don't understand your motive, but it is your choice as a consumer to consume (legally) what you want. If you like sensationalized news because it is your form of entertainment, thats up to you.

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, well, well.....Demo's cheating to gain a Senate seat? Parish the thought!

    Now stonewalling to make sure that they can cheat in the future. Is anyone really surprised. Frankin is a joke! A mental midget! And a liar. Just like his boss Obama.



    Thoughts?


    j-mac
    Many thoughts....

    1) Guys from South Carolina feigning outrage over election irregularities are akin to the pot calling the kettle black.
    2) This assumes that felons voted 98% for Franken.... statistically improbable, even in a largely democratic district
    3) Tie goes to the Ump... in other words, Coleman failed to win the race outright... you are going to have a certain amount of illegal, double votes or bad counts... you job is to win by enough to take that out of the equation.
    4) Franken has a degree in Political Science from Harvard. He is no mental midget.
    5) This was no where as egregious as the shenanigans (insufficient inter-city voting booths, plenty in the suburbs) that went on in Ohio in '04 that kept Bush in office.... again, never make your race so close that this could be a problem.

    Sorry, there is nothing here people... just some malcontent trying to make something out of nothing.... move on.

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    341 convicted felon votes, 312 being the difference in the election. To be the deciding factor, the felons would have had to break like 90% towards Franken. When was the last time any demographic broke that hard in a Senate race?
    You mean like when the blacks voted 97% for one candidate, for "undisclosed" reasons?

    Let's....take those 341 bogus votes, and add to that those bogus votes one of Franken's team "found" in the trunk of his car...and the precincts where Franken received more votes than were registered voters ...

    Nooooo...Democrats don't cheat at elections....

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You mean like when the blacks voted 97% for one candidate, for "undisclosed" reasons?

    Let's....take those 341 bogus votes, and add to that those bogus votes one of Franken's team "found" in the trunk of his car...and the precincts where Franken received more votes than were registered voters ...

    Nooooo...Democrats don't cheat at elections....
    They both probably cheat, not a party thing but a human thing.

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Good article here, which states in part "I don’t mean to be disrespectful, just instructive, but I’d like to comment on the comments of Sen. Coleman and Gov. Pawlenty. As we know, Coleman won the 2002 Senate election 11 days after incumbent Sen. Paul Wellstone was killed in a plane crash. Polls showed Wellstone was going to win that election. For Coleman to call Franken “an accidental senator” is tragically ironic, for there are some who believe Coleman was the original accidental senator."

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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Well, I'm surprised to find myself pointing out once again that Baltimore is not in Minnesota.

    The demographics between Balto, and the Minniapolis/St. Paul area are similar. Maybe you don't understand how to compare, and contrast quite yet....Hmmm...Still got some time in school?


    j-mac
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    Re: Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Fin

    Demographics have no bearing on the subject at hand though. Guess you still have your own learning to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The demographics between Balto, and the Minniapolis/St. Paul area are similar. Maybe you don't understand how to compare, and contrast quite yet....Hmmm...Still got some time in school?


    j-mac

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