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Thread: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

  1. #41
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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    That is correct, it was a bad spill. Again though, two in thirty years and this is comparitively the rarest of industrial accidents. No one is saying it's a good thing, but the moratorium has been found to be illegitimate and ill-advised and we all use oil, all economics are tied to it, and the subject is that the administration is going to go about getting it's way regardless. This is what the hangers on need to remember when discussing Obama.
    Ixtoc was in the Bay of Campeche in Mexican waters and under Mexican administration...
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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Ixtoc was in the Bay of Campeche in Mexican waters and under Mexican administration...
    I know that much. It was a response to the people saying there was more than one disaster in the gulf, that's true, it just wasn't in our own federal waters.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    And in 60 years of drilling in the gulf, this is the first time a blowout and oil leak of this magnitude has happened. I think playing chicken little this quickly is a little bit jumping the gun.
    The lies need to stop here.

    1) First of all, deep water drilling is new. You cannot compare deep water drilling to shallow water drilling. They are 2 completely different animals.

    2) But since you decided to lump deep water and shallow water drilling into the same category, then you cannot forget the Ixtoc I disaster in the 1970's, which until this year was the largest spill in the Gulf, and ruined the economy of parts of Mexico for years. South Texas was also affected, but for a much shorter period of time. Impact on business from Corpus Christi to Brownsville, after this spill, averaged 40-60%, but in some cases was as much as 80%*. Ixtoc I is now the second largest Gulf spill in history.

    3) The Ocean Ranger incident off of Newfoundland in 1982 killed 84 members when this semi-submersible drilling platform sank. That was also an accident, and it is also something I don't see mentioned. Luckily, it was still drilling, and had not struck oil yet, when it sank in a storm. The investigation found that the crew was not properly trained, was not provided with proper equipment, and that there were design flaws in the rig.

    4) OK, back to the Gulf, and a little trivia. There have been 2 other incidents, in addition to Deepwater Horizon and Ixtoc I, in which significant quantities of oil were spilled. These both involved tankers. In 1979, the Burmah Agate, with its cargo of Nigerian oil, collided with another ship, and beaches from Galveston to Corpus Christi were fouled. And, in 1990, 100,000 barrels of oil were spilled into the Gulf, just off the coast of Galveston, when an explosion occurred aboard the Mega Borg.

    Just showing here that the drilling and transportation of oil is not the perfectly safe venture that the GlennBecksters are attempting to make it out to be. In context, the record is not that bad, considering the thousands of rigs in operation, but with the lack of regulation (due to regulations being gutted), safety procedures not being properly followed, poor training, defective equipment, and other issues, a moratorium on the deep wells (there are only 36 of them), until these issues are worked out over about a 6 month period, is not only the prudent thing to do, but is perfectly logical, considering that we cannot handle another spill like this, if it happens. What are the chances, you say? From the other incidents I posted above, I would say the odds are high enough not to be trifled with, considering the extent of unsafe practices in place at the present time.

    * Environmental impact study of Ixtoc I disaster, released by MMS in 1982, page 86.
    Last edited by danarhea; 07-14-10 at 12:53 AM.
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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The lies need to stop here.

    1) First of all, deep water drilling is new. You cannot compare deep water drilling to shallow water drilling. They are 2 completely different animals.

    2) But since you decided to lump deep water and shallow water drilling into the same category, then you cannot forget the Ixtoc I disaster in the 1970's, which until this year was the largest spill in the Gulf, and ruined the economy of parts of Mexico for years. South Texas was also affected, but for a much shorter period of time. Impact on business from Corpus Christi to Brownsville, after this spill was as much as 80%*. Ixtoc I is now the second largest Gulf spill in history.

    3) The Ocean Ranger incident off of Newfoundland in 1982 killed 84 members when this semi-submersible drilling platform sank. That was also an accident, and it is also something I don't see mentioned. Luckily, it was still drilling, and had not struck oil yet, when it sank in a storm. The investigation found that the crew was not properly trained, was not provided with proper equipment, and that there were design flaws in the rig.

    4) OK, back to the Gulf, and a little trivia. There have been 2 other incidents, in addition to Deepwater Horizon and Ixtoc I, in which significant quantities of oil were spilled. These both involved tankers. In 1979, the Burmah Agate, with its cargo of Nigerian oil, collided with another ship, and beaches from Galveston to Corpus Christi were fouled. And, in 1990, 100,000 barrels of oil were spilled into the Gulf, just off the coast of Galveston, when an explosion occurred aboard the Mega Borg.

    Just showing here that the drilling and transportation of oil is not the perfectly safe venture that the GlennBecksters are attempting to make it out to be. In context, the record is not that bad, considering the thousands of rigs in operation, but with the lack of regulation (due to regulations being gutted), safety procedures not being properly followed, poor training, defective equipment, and other issues, a moratorium on the deep wells (there are only 36 of them), until these issues are worked out over about a 6 month period, is not only the prudent thing to do, but is perfectly logical, considering that we cannot handle another spill like this, if it happens. What are the chances, you say? From the other incidents I posted above, I would say the odds are high enough not to be trifled with, considering the extent of unsafe practices in place at the present time.

    * Environmental impact study of Ixtoc I disaster, released by MMS in 1982, page 86.
    Disagree completely Dan. These spills are relatively few, I had forgotten about a few of the ones you mentioned, but there is absolutely no reason to shut the industry down for six months and cause an economic catastrophe that could possibly rival the damage from this blowout.

    Secondly, it's no secret that Ken Salazar is an enviro-nut and wants to kill the oil industry which is the primary reason not to trust him in this. But as well, the reason that the moratorium lost in court was not the depth of water, it was a jurisdictional matter which was not cleared up in the second moratorium. This leads me to believe that these things are just going to keep getting issued until either criminal proceedings or full on impeachments are held against the executive and at that point it will economically be too late.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  5. #45
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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    My prediction? This one will stick. The affected companies haven't resumed their efforts yet, and with this most will give up on the GoM and do their thing in friendlier waters. This certainly isn't going to help the economy down there, but hey... it's Obama.

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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Disagree completely Dan. These spills are relatively few, I had forgotten about a few of the ones you mentioned, but there is absolutely no reason to shut the industry down for six months and cause an economic catastrophe that could possibly rival the damage from this blowout.

    Secondly, it's no secret that Ken Salazar is an enviro-nut and wants to kill the oil industry which is the primary reason not to trust him in this. But as well, the reason that the moratorium lost in court was not the depth of water, it was a jurisdictional matter which was not cleared up in the second moratorium. This leads me to believe that these things are just going to keep getting issued until either criminal proceedings or full on impeachments are held against the executive and at that point it will economically be too late.
    You know, my friend, if they were following the book, I would agree with you, but they aren't, and that is the problem.
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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You know, my friend, if they were following the book, I would agree with you, but they aren't, and that is the problem.
    And to think it was one middle manager. At least that's what a lot of people are telling me here, one guy(don't know if it's valid or not) said he was on the rig for it's first "burp" and got the hell out. I agree that everything needs to be addressed, the government needs to hash out why the inspectors turned away, BP needs to figure out why it's rig had a multiple system failure, and we need to figure out......to quote the president "who's ass to kick". I don't know about a complete industry shutdown though, too economically risky, I can see why we need to have around the clock discussions of what the fix is though.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    And to think it was one middle manager. At least that's what a lot of people are telling me here, one guy(don't know if it's valid or not) said he was on the rig for it's first "burp" and got the hell out. I agree that everything needs to be addressed, the government needs to hash out why the inspectors turned away, BP needs to figure out why it's rig had a multiple system failure, and we need to figure out......to quote the president "who's ass to kick". I don't know about a complete industry shutdown though, too economically risky, I can see why we need to have around the clock discussions of what the fix is though.
    But it's only 36 wells, out of the thousands that are already out there. At least that is what it was in the first order. To be honest, I have not had a chance to see the new order, and understand the impact of the few words that were changed. IMHO, 36 wells out for a relatively short period of time, then put back into operation, is not too much to ask for, if it results in some regulations with teeth. Between you and me, though, I believe that the head of MMS needs to be fired and replaced, and inspectors who allowed industry officials to rubber stamp fake inspections, without really inspecting the wells need to be brought up on criminal charges, especially the ones who took gifts from these officials. People need to be doing time over this. Problem is that the Obama administration is no better than the Bush administration in this area, and could actually even be worse, since he promised to clean up corruption in government. He sure the hell lied about that, didn't he? I think he needs to pay the piper too, in the next election.
    Last edited by danarhea; 07-14-10 at 01:14 AM.
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    Re: New Offshore Oil Moratorium not Focused on Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    But it's only 36 wells, out of the thousands that are already out there. At least that is what it was in the first order. To be honest, I have not had a chance to see the new order, and understand the impact of the few words that were changed. IMHO, 36 wells out for a relatively short period of time, then put back into operation, is not too much to ask for, if it results in some regulations with teeth.
    I'd like to say 36 isn't that bad but if they want this shutdown for 6 months they're going to have to cite specific concerns or otherwise get out of the way. But even if we talk about only 36 wells the divers, support crews, and deckhands of those deepwater wells are going to take severe pay hits over those months, that's going to get back to all other aspects of the economy especially considering the deeper drilling jobs pay an obscene amount more than shallower ones .
    Between you and me, though, I believe that the head of MMS needs to be fired and replaced, and inspectors who allowed industry officials to rubber stamp fake inspections, without really inspecting the wells need to be brought up on criminal charges, especially the ones who took gifts from these officials. People need to be doing time over this.
    You'll get no argument from me here.
    Problem is that the Obama administration is no better than the Bush administration in this area, and could actually even be worse, since he promised to clean up corruption in government. He sure the hell lied about that, didn't he? I think he needs to pay the piper too, in the next election.
    Looks prime for exactly that, but I'm more concerned about the well being stifled right now and the mid-terms. One step at a time here.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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