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Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

ric27 said:
"our lopsided support of Israel"...

Even if Israel was given to them, they would find another reason to justify attacking the US. We could give them everything they have ever asked for, and they would still find a reason to fight.

Because until the world is Muslim and one of them is the Caliph, they won't rest.

Thats the bottom line
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That's speculation, to put it kindly.
 
Agent Ferris said:
They were seldom if ever enforced and by Lawrence V. Taylor 36 states had repealed the statutes or invalidated them through the state courts.



Ya the right to sexual privacy was found by the SCOTUS in Lawrence V. Texas, so if anyone even was brought to court and convicted of adultery it would be overuled on appeal.



The point is that you don't have to go back far, in current mainstream Islam the only accepted views are that corporal punishment and/or capital punishment are the penalties for pre-marital sex, adultery, sodomy, and apostasy.
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So what? The point is that if they're not that different from what we were in the past, they may not be that different from us. Let's stop trying to subjugate them, give them a chance to develop democratic institutions, and see what happens.
 
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Opteron said:
Yeah, you're neglecting that part in your argument, which is why your argument is false, not neglecting that piece of information. Of course I wouldn't expect you to understand this, otherwise you would be able to properly respond to arguments.


Actually, anybody who believes otherwise is a fool. I take it you don't live in the civilized part of the world or you wish to go back to the Middle Ages?

The Middle Ages are not relevant to the actions of people today.


How is this relevant to Islam, violence, and the 21st century? It's not. You're just stating the same irrelevant sentence over and over.
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Any serious student of human history will tell you that you're 100% wrong. Anybody who doesn't mind repeating the mistakes of the past will tell you that you're 100% correct.

Be happy in your ignorance.
 
Winston Smith said:
That's speculation, to put it kindly.
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What do you think would have happened if we had left Iraq the day after we captured Hussein? Would that end the attacks on the US and US troops around the world? If we dropped all support for Israel, removed every troop from Muslim countries, quit sending money to every regime, would that end the attacks?
 
Arcana XV said:
I know, right? Me too.

And it's the same arguments borne out of fear of the unknown and a twisted view of reality that is completely focused on the exceptions that make headlines, totally disregarding the normal and average harmless majority. I remember when people used to say that all Russians were savages bent on killing us all, and many posts in this thread remind me of that time. I'm willing to bet that not a single one of these people who rant and rail about Islam and Muslims have ever met a single Muslim in real life.
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No, it's more analogous to people seeing the Soviet Union or Red China and saying "that's not the real Communism now only if you gave the real Communism a chance".
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
History is always relevant.

Christianity has demonstrated its potential to be a violent religion when it had the political power to go along with the ambitions of its leadership.

In truth, today's Islam is significantly less dangerous than Christianity at its peak, primarily because it is decentralized.
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Ya I suppose that's why Islamic radicals are responsible for more deaths anually than during the entire reign of the Spanish Inquisition. :roll: In truth Islam killed more people even during the period where Christianity was at its peak IE the largest genocide the world had ever seen until Hitler which was perpetrated by the Islamic Imperialists on the Indian Subcontinent.
 
Winston Smith said:
So what? The point is that if they're not that different from what we were in the past,
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Yes because the U.S. has a long history of executing gays for being gay, apostates for being apostates, adulterers for being adulterers, and lashing people for having sex outside of marriage.

they may not be that different from us. Let's stop trying to subjugate them, give them a chance to develop democratic institutions, and see what happens.
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lmfao, us trying to subjugate them? What planet do you live on? Islam literally means submission.
 
Arcana XV said:
Okay, seriously now. How much are they paying you to make conservatives look bad?
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I am 100% opposed to Islam in every way, shape or form. Forget religious opposition. From a purely secular, political perspective, Islam is a clear and present danger to this country and to the American way of life. Islam is even more insidious than communism. Until the day arises that we finally decide to eradicate it, we must resist it at every point. It should not be protected under the first amendment because of the threat it presents to the US.

Btw The liberal mods are itching to ban me
 
ric27 said:
I am 100% opposed to Islam in every way, shape or form.
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Finally you've said it.

I can now discount anything you say from now on.

I was getting worried you could be objective on this subject :2razz:
 
ric27 said:
What do you think would have happened if we had left Iraq the day after we captured Hussein? Would that end the attacks on the US and US troops around the world? If we dropped all support for Israel, removed every troop from Muslim countries, quit sending money to every regime, would that end the attacks?
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Basically, yes. We haven't always been at war with Islam. It's only since we've interfered in their business that it's become such a big issue.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Finally you've said it.

I can now discount anything you say from now on.

I was getting worried you could be objective on this subject :2razz:
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Use your head. We don't allow all religious freedoms. If you want to worship Quetzelcoatl and cut out hearts for a human sacrifice, it ain't gonna happen ,Jet... If you want to burn a man in a wicker basket at Samhain, it ain't gonna happen, Jet... If you'll check every post I've made, there is only one religion that I've ever said must be opposed and driven to extinction and that is Islam. And as I said in the post before this one, it isn't for religious reasons. It is because Islam is a clear and present danger to the existence of the United States. What part of that didn't you understand?
 
Jetboogieman said:
Finally you've said it.

I can now discount anything you say from now on.

I was getting worried you could be objective on this subject :2razz:
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What's wrong with being 100% opposed to Islam? That's like saying that you're 100% opposed to Nazism, or 100% opposed to Communism.

If you're not opposed to an ideology in which the only accepted view is that the penalties for apostasy, adultery, premarital sex, and/or homosexuality are either capital and/or corporal punishments, then you are a clear enemy of liberty and on the side of violence and oppression. That IS mainstream Islam in fact there is not a major Islamic sect in which there is another accepted view.
 
ric27 said:
Use your head. We don't allow all religious freedoms. If you want to worship Quetzelcoatl and cut out hearts for a human sacrifice, it ain't gonna happen ,Jet... If you want to burn a man in a wicker basket at Samhain, it ain't gonna happen, Jet... If you'll check every post I've made, there is only one religion that I've ever said must be opposed and driven to extinction and that is Islam. And as I said in the post before this one, it isn't for religious reasons. It is because Islam is a clear and present danger to the existence of the United States. What part of that didn't you understand?
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Ours is a society of law, in which certain assumptions exist, and have for a very long time.

It is because of the law and these assumptions that you can't punish people for things you think they're going to do.

Move to China, your opinion with respect to law enforcement would be much more at home there.
 
ric27 said:
Use your head. We don't allow all religious freedoms. If you want to worship Quetzelcoatl and cut out hearts for a human sacrifice, it ain't gonna happen ,Jet... If you want to burn a man in a wicker basket at Samhain, it ain't gonna happen, Jet... If you'll check every post I've made, there is only one religion that I've ever said must be opposed and driven to extinction and that is Islam. And as I said in the post before this one, it isn't for religious reasons. It is because Islam is a clear and present danger to the existence of the United States. What part of that didn't you understand?
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I don't really understand you at all. And your argument doesn't stand. Do regular Muslims in the United States cut peoples hearts out and burn men in wicker baskets? No. Then its not relevant. But whatever floats your boat.

At least now I know you hate Islam and Muslims. So I can move on with my life.
 
Winston Smith said:
Basically, yes. We haven't always been at war with Islam. It's only since we've interfered in their business that it's become such a big issue.
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Ya I mean like when we were clearly attacking Muslims when they started attacking and enslaving our sailors prior to the barbary wars. :roll: And by "interfering in their business" I take it you mean, finding, developing, and then purchasing their oil at a fair price so that they could stop living in ****ing tents in the ****ing desert. How dare we.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Yes because the U.S. has a long history of executing gays for being gay, apostates for being apostates, adulterers for being adulterers, and lashing people for having sex outside of marriage.
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Well, not any more. Now we just execute people for really serious stuff like transporting marijuana across state lines...which has nothing to do with religious fanaticism, of course.


Agent Ferris said:
lmfao, us trying to subjugate them? What planet do you live on? Islam literally means submission.
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It means submission to God, not Uncle Sam. There is a difference.
 
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ric27 said:
I am 100% opposed to Islam in every way, shape or form. Forget religious opposition. From a purely secular, political perspective, Islam is a clear and present danger to this country and to the American way of life. Islam is even more insidious than communism. Until the day arises that we finally decide to eradicate it, we must resist it at every point. It should not be protected under the first amendment because of the threat it presents to the US.

Btw The liberal mods are itching to ban me
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I don't think you should be banned. Unfortunately, your views are more relevant than many would like to admit.
 
Winston Smith said:
Well, not any more.
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Well never.

Now we just execute people for really serious stuff like transporting marijuana across state lines...which has nothing to do with religious fanaticism, of course.
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What? Ya people receive the death penalty for trafficking pot all the time. :roll:


It means submission to God, not Uncle Sam. There is a difference.
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Ya we admit the latter is a fictional character; whereas, they do not admit that for their celestial dictator.
 
Winston Smith said:
I don't think you should be banned. Unfortunately, your views are more relevant than many would like to admit.
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lol.....Tell me, whats difference between Islam and Communism?
 
Jetboogieman said:
I don't really understand you at all. And your argument doesn't stand. Do regular Muslims in the United States cut peoples hearts out and burn men in wicker baskets? No. Then its not relevant. But whatever floats your boat.

At least now I know you hate Islam and Muslims. So I can move on with my life.
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Jet, just wtf constitutes "radical" Islam? Is it the desire to declare jihad on unbelievers? To eliminate Israel? To destroy the US? To spread Islam around the world?

Wtf is it?
 
ric27 said:
At it's very roots, it's essential being, Islam is violently intolerant and incompatible with everyone who is not Muslim
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Crusades, Old Testament, Inquisition.
 
Agent Ferris said:
Give me a ****ing break, the largest proponent for this Mosque said that the U.S. brought 9-11 upon itself.
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Ugh. He said that we made mistakes. He didn't say that the attacks were justified.

Agent Ferris said:
It's like pointing out that the cause of a car accident, the car swerved, and refusing to admit, because you thought that would make the victim "look bad." The car accident wasn't satan, but they did make a mistake.

Not only are they having the Mosque at ground zero but to rub everyone's nose in it they are holding the ground breaking ceremony on 9-11, and you people are honestly suggesting it is an attempt at reconciliation? How naive can you possibly be?
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If you had evidence that they supported the attacks and fundamentalism I'd agree with you, but you have nothing to go against their claims other than generalizations
 
Agent Ferris said:
No the Ijma of the Ulama in all five schools of Islamic fiqh which have determined that apostasy, sodomy, adultery, and pre-marital sex are to be punished by death or lashings, reflects on Islam, that is not the fringe view, it is the ONLY accepted view in mainstream Islam. Are all Muslims violent? No. But that says absolutely nothing about Islam itself just as a pro-choice Catholic does not reflect on the pro-life position of the Catholic church.
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Since when is a religion only defined by those in ivory towers? Many listen to them, but how one does or doesn't look to God is up to them. To define religion by the narrow viewpoint of a few people, powerful or not, is to distort what the religion is.
 
Agent Ferris said:
No, it's more analogous to people seeing the Soviet Union or Red China and saying "that's not the real Communism now only if you gave the real Communism a chance".
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Nah, I never heard anyone say that before the Berlin Wall fell and the Soviet Union broke into pieces.

But either way, whoever said that is right. The only real form of communism I know of is the original kibbutz communities in Israel.
 
ric27 said:
I am 100% opposed to Islam in every way, shape or form. Forget religious opposition. From a purely secular, political perspective, Islam is a clear and present danger to this country and to the American way of life. Islam is even more insidious than communism. Until the day arises that we finally decide to eradicate it, we must resist it at every point. It should not be protected under the first amendment because of the threat it presents to the US.

Btw The liberal mods are itching to ban me
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There's no need to eradicate it. You have laws to keep fundamentalism in check, do you not? Punish those who break the law of the land and leave the peaceful people alone.
 
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