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Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

It's not "on the WTC site." It's a couple blocks away.
So, conservatives: How big a "no mosque zone" shall we establish in NYC? Should we also establish similar zones around areas where crimes have been committed by Christians? Is the "no religious building zone's" size standard or does it scale with the number of fatalities?

It's a community center with a mosque in it. They're trying to reach out to the community and mend fences. And you're spitting in their face and calling them the enemy. You are anti-American.


600 feet.... 1 block.
 
I agree it's in poor taste and wouldn't recommend it at all, but they have the right to do so.


No, they don't have a "right to build" anything. That has to be approved. They have the right if American citizens to ownership of the property, that is all.

Now earlier you insulted the entire board, saying in essence that we knew nothing about the Qur'an, yet you seem to know nothing of the Constitution of the United States.

And further:

sure it looks like a dirty move but maybe they build this mosque to show people hey "most of us are peaceful people, we a sorry this happened" and are trying to mend relations.


You say it looks like a dirty move, then say hey maybe they just want to be friends? What are you smoking dude?

Historically speaking it is a show of dominance to erect a temple on the ground which one feels they have conquered.

j-mac
 
Historically speaking it is a show of dominance to erect a temple on the ground which one feels they have conquered

which is why I say it "looks" like a dirty move, Maybe that is the motive behind it..no way to know for sure. I'm just saying it's nuts for people to try and justify the point of "no Muslim Mosque by the ground zero because some Muslim extremest nuts destroyed those buildings." If I was a Muslim I would be fairly upset with this whole thing. To attempt and lump 9/11 on the entire people of a single religion isn't right. The people that will attend and work at the mosque probably would have never wished 9/11 happened.

and exactly how are you gonna go about denying these people the right to build their Mosque without being unconstitutional?
 
well Hot damn...Since Muslim countries don't allow religious freedom that makes them Muslims over here exempt from the constitution, never knew it worked that way!


I'm just defending the constitution here, and The Bible is filled with absolutely atrocious and horrible things. Maybe it's no Koran but it's no Buddha-Dharma

Don't make me take you to the woodshed. The point made was that you cannot equate Islam and Christianity unless you wish to embarrass yourself.

Interesting you bring up Buddhism since Islam sees those religions as even lower forms of life than Christians and Jews or "people of the book"
 
Historically speaking it is a show of dominance to erect a temple on the ground which one feels they have conquered

which is why I say it "looks" like a dirty move, Maybe that is the motive behind it..no way to know for sure. I'm just saying it's nuts for people to try and justify the point of "no Muslim Mosque by the ground zero because some Muslim extremest nuts destroyed those buildings." If I was a Muslim I would be fairly upset with this whole thing. To attempt and lump 9/11 on the entire people of a single religion isn't right. The people that will attend and work at the mosque probably would have never wished 9/11 happened.

and exactly how are you gonna go about denying these people the right to build their Mosque without being unconstitutional?

i think no muslim mosque because a muslim extremist destroyed those buildings AND killed our citizens is very reasonable.
 
Somehow I posted in the wrong thread, this was intended for elsewhere.
 
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i think no muslim mosque because a muslim extremist destroyed those buildings AND killed our citizens is very reasonable.

Absolutely. Just like if anti abortion terrorists blew up a building killing thousands I would be against a church affiliated with pro life being built so close to the attack.
 
Don't make me take you to the woodshed. The point made was that you cannot equate Islam and Christianity unless you wish to embarrass yourself.

Interesting you bring up Buddhism since Islam sees those religions as even lower forms of life than Christians and Jews or "people of the book"

Christians think everyone else ends up in hell.
 
Absolutely. Just like if anti abortion terrorists blew up a building killing thousands I would be against a church affiliated with pro life being built so close to the attack.

How many bodies enacts this religious exclusion zone? And how big is the zone?
 
@ BCR -- You aren't defending the U.S. Constitution, that's just your last-ditch attempt to justify your position. No one has said this can't be done, they're saying it is in extremely poor taste and has ulterior motives. As to 'studying the Koran,' hahahahaha!! That'll be the day. But I did spend several hours the other day trying to find scholars who had found redeeming qualities in it -- I could find nothing.

i find that hard to believe....scholars have not universally condemned the koran.
 
How about building a whore house next door to the mosque?
 
There is nothing redeeming about the Islamic faith, fundamentalist or extremist. The Koran is filled with hatred toward nonbelievers. I wonder if "they" would let us build a Christian church in Mecca?

Somewhat poor taste? Honestly, we just bend over and grab our ankles to look tolerant.

It doesn't matter what "they" would do. "They" are not a part of our laws or culture. In this country, we believe in religious freedom. And as such, we recognize the rights of any religion, even those we don't agree with (like Scientology) to exist and practice as they see fit. So long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others, there's nothing we can legitimately do to stop them.
 
How about building a whore house next door to the mosque?

Barring some local spots, whore houses are illegal even in this country (for some reason). And thus in most places here, you couldn't build one next to a Church. And even if you could....man there would be much bitching and gnashing of teeth at the attempt.
 
Keep the government out of our lives!!! Personal liberty! I have the right to do what I want with my own property!

Wait, what? Muslims building a mosque?
GOVERNMENT, STOP THIS MADNESS!
 
It doesn't matter what "they" would do. "They" are not a part of our laws or culture. In this country, we believe in religious freedom. And as such, we recognize the rights of any religion, even those we don't agree with (like Scientology) to exist and practice as they see fit. So long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others, there's nothing we can legitimately do to stop them.

Thank you! This is what I am talking about
 
It doesn't matter what "they" would do. "They" are not a part of our laws or culture. In this country, we believe in religious freedom. And as such, we recognize the rights of any religion, even those we don't agree with (like Scientology) to exist and practice as they see fit. So long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others, there's nothing we can legitimately do to stop them.

My argument has been about its being in very poor taste...and probably an ulterior motive -- not that we can stop it. Of COURSE we can't.

Our rights also include the right to be pissed off about it.
 
Don't make me take you to the woodshed. The point made was that you cannot equate Islam and Christianity unless you wish to embarrass yourself.

Interesting you bring up Buddhism since Islam sees those religions as even lower forms of life than Christians and Jews or "people of the book"

Please take me to the woodshed on a message board...lol, Islam is more radical than Christianity..Yes I'll admit that. Still Christianity was just as bad as Islam a few hundred years ago, killing people who would not convert and going on Crusades. I'm just saying Christianity isn't all bells and whistles. It's fairly radical itself and is filled with many horrific stories of rape and slaughter. You guys choose to ignore those verses but that doesn't change the fact they are there.

The funny thing is both religions are extremely improbable to be true but you guys continue to argue over who is right and what not. My God has a bigger penis than yours!!!!
 
Historically speaking it is a show of dominance to erect a temple on the ground which one feels they have conquered

That is what I said.


which is why I say it "looks" like a dirty move, Maybe that is the motive behind it..no way to know for sure.


Motive? let's take a look at who is behind this so called outreach shall we?


Feisal Abdul Rauf


"It was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

and

"I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."

and

During an interview on New York WABC radio in June 2010, Imam Rauf declined to say whether he agreed with the U.S. State Department's designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization. Responding to the question, Rauf said, "I'm not a politician. I try to avoid the issues. The issue of terrorism is a very complex question... I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy."

Feisal Abdul Rauf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, he is a master deflector. When asked about the bombing of innocent civlians he plays the blame game with the US going back to WWII.

When asked if the US deserved what happened on 9/11 he says that we were at least complicent in what happened. So yes he does believe we deserved it.

When asked if he would denounce Hamas, he dances like a supporter of Hamas.

YouTube - NYC Ground Zero Mosque Founder Exposed...?


It is common practice for Muslims to lie to non believers, in fact is called for, so to take this man's word on anything would be insane, seeing as how he was raised by a Father that was involved in the Muslim Brotherhood.


j-mac
 
even if he was an avid supporter of 9/11 and Hamas we still wouldn't have the right to stop that Mosque...It does indeed look a bit shoddy. I have just been trying to the point across that their is no way you can stop this mosque from being built without being unconstitutional. If I was that man I would build my mosque elsewhere but that doesn't change the fact that he has the right to build it a block away.
 
Exactly how is it a horrible assumption to assume the majority of people have not studied the Koran? I mean please enlighten me, I'm going out on a limb here and saying most haven't. I'll take JuJu's word that he has read it which means I'm wrong to make that bet but still, come on.


You are not talking to the majority of people, you are talking to people on a political debate forum on a topic concerning Islam, therefore those of us participating are much more likely to have knowledge of the Qu'ran than the majority of people.

I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove to you that myself or anyone else here is knowledgeable, because that is irrelevant. In my experience, it's always ill advised and rude to make such broad assumptions about a group of people.
 
I honestly think you should quit while you're "ahead."
Still Christianity was just as bad as Islam a few hundred years ago, killing people who would not convert and going on Crusades.

Uh-oh, too late.

If you did some homework, you would see why many people are very emotional about the teachings in the Koran.
 
That is what I said.





Motive? let's take a look at who is behind this so called outreach shall we?


Feisal Abdul Rauf


"It was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

and

"I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."

and

During an interview on New York WABC radio in June 2010, Imam Rauf declined to say whether he agreed with the U.S. State Department's designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization. Responding to the question, Rauf said, "I'm not a politician. I try to avoid the issues. The issue of terrorism is a very complex question... I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy."

Feisal Abdul Rauf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, he is a master deflector. When asked about the bombing of innocent civlians he plays the blame game with the US going back to WWII.

When asked if the US deserved what happened on 9/11 he says that we were at least complicent in what happened. So yes he does believe we deserved it.

When asked if he would denounce Hamas, he dances like a supporter of Hamas.

YouTube - NYC Ground Zero Mosque Founder Exposed...?


It is common practice for Muslims to lie to non believers, in fact is called for, so to take this man's word on anything would be insane, seeing as how he was raised by a Father that was involved in the Muslim Brotherhood.


j-mac

"He said that we didn't deserve it, but I'm going to assume he meant that we DID deserve it!"
 
even if he was an avid supporter of 9/11 and Hamas we still wouldn't have the right to stop that Mosque...It does indeed look a bit shoddy.

"Even If"???? So at a time of war against terrorist organizations like Hamas, and his obvious feeling that our policies (IOW, support of Israel) caused 9/11, you think we don't have a right to stand in the way of him building a monument to their success of that day? Are you kidding?


I have just been trying to the point across that their is no way you can stop this mosque from being built without being unconstitutional.


Nope, you are just dead flat wrong here. Show me where in the constitution you have an unfettered right to build?


If I was that man I would build my mosque elsewhere but that doesn't change the fact that he has the right to build it a block away.

No you are confused, he has a right to own property, real, or otherwise, but no right to build, that is what local building commissions are for.


j-mac
 
"He said that we didn't deserve it, but I'm going to assume he meant that we DID deserve it!"

Don't play word games dude...He tried to, and just can't get past saying that our policies, (Meaning our support of Israel) made us an accomplice to that crime....That is BS!!!!!


j-mac
 
Don't play word games dude...He tried to, and just can't get past saying that our policies, (Meaning our support of Israel) made us an accomplice to that crime....That is BS!!!!!


j-mac

You don't think our actions in that part of the world contributed to some of the hatred they hold for us? There's a difference between deserving it and contributing to it.
If I repeatedly set your car on fire, I don't deserve to be shot by you. However, if you were to shoot me, my setting your car on fire might be considered a contribution to the situation that caused the shooting.

Somehow I bet you'll spin this to mean I support the terrorists or something, as that would be standard absolutism for conservatives and a continuation of the absolutism you've already displayed here, so let me just head that off as being total bull****.
 
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