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Thread: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    They don't have to check it. CNN provided a disclaimer which I posted...

    Until you're willing to provide concrete evidence of this date. It does not exist. I have looked around, and I can't find concrete evidence either.

    Yet another attempt to subvert the conservation, not through fact and logic, but through emotions and lies.
    The CNN disclaimer was in relation to the opinions of the author, he did not state the date of the groundbreaking as opinion, that was a statement of fact.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The CNN disclaimer was in relation to the opinions of the author, he did not state the date of the groundbreaking as opinion, that was a statement of fact.
    Well then how come YOU and I can't find any other references of it. Besides opinionated articles.

    Until I see hard proof. That argument does not stand.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Well then how come YOU and I can't find any other references of it. Besides opinionated articles.

    Until I see hard proof. That argument does not stand.
    I provided three articles one from the left, one from the right, and one from the center. WTF do you want from me?

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    I provided three articles one from the left, one from the right, and one from the center. WTF do you want from me?
    I did my own research on this matter. If I could find proof, i'd believe it.

    But no such proof exists.

    I don't care what "lean" website it comes from. These are opinion articles and not matters of fact.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    What a perfect description of political correctness. Your gut instinct told you the truth, but then all the training took over and you went with what you were supposed to feel instead of what you felt.

    You couldn't ask for a more obvious in-your-face gesture than this, but you folks have been conditioned to beat up each other lest any of you actually recognize it and so you fall back into your familiar European denial, instead.
    You're so wrong, Gardener. And once again, you're not going far enough in your line of thought. Never mind the fact that the European label doesn't really apply to me, since I didn't really grow up on this continent. I'm an ex-pat brat, the product of a North-American father and a European mother. I grew up all over the world.

    If you knew just how many times my very human gut instinct tells me things that you would find utterly revolting, you'd probably despise me even more than you already do. The fact that I have a brain that tends to immediately kick in to question and overcome some natural prejudices that I can't seem to have any control over is my saving grace.

    Now, I'm very sorry if my rational conclusion in this particular matter differs from yours, but I know for a fact that you would be the very first to praise my ability to go beyond my instinctual reactions when it comes to other subject matters.

    I'm going to need more than my first impression of impropriety in this matter to agree with the people who want this project stopped. Primal gut instinct is simply not enough.
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    You're so wrong, Gardener. And once again, you're not going far enough in your line of thought. Never mind the fact that the European label doesn't really apply to me, since I didn't really grow up on this continent. I'm an ex-pat brat, the product of a North-American father and a European mother. I grew up all over the world.

    If you knew just how many times my very human gut instinct tells me things that you would find utterly revolting, you'd probably despise me even more than you already do. The fact that I have a brain that tends to immediately kick in to question and overcome some natural prejudices that I can't seem to have any control over is my saving grace.

    Now, I'm very sorry if my rational conclusion in this particular matter differs from yours, but I know for a fact that you would be the very first to praise my ability to go beyond my instinctual reactions when it comes to other subject matters.

    I'm going to need more than my first impression of impropriety in this matter to agree with the people who want this project stopped. Primal gut instinct is simply not enough.
    I don't despise you at all. I think you are quite nice, in fact.


    I do not think it is at all rational, however, to deny this symbolism which is so very consistant with a pattern established over 1500 years of Muslim conquest and subjugation. It is the fact that choosing such symbolic sites to erect their monuments to victory is such a part of this pattern that belies all the blather they are offering as far as their intent. This is a provocative, in your face gesture which will be used to help propel the Ummah, especially since we are failing this audacious act calculated to test our mettle by showing cowardice, lack of resolve and especially a lack of understanding as to what it symbolizes to the Islamists.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Rational conclusions? More like trembling subservience.

    In this thread we have heard over and over the PC line with everything concerning pure denial that this mosque in intent, and purpose is not some slap in the face of America. We have sat through some sort of fairy tale picture of Switzerland's problem with its own Muslim population made into some kind of Euro citizen class, accepting of others. When the truth is, and has been written on since at least 2006.

    As they have elsewhere in Europe, Islamic radicals are making inroads in Switzerland. Last month, Swiss officials announced the arrests of a dozen suspects who allegedly conspired to shoot down an Israeli airliner flying from Geneva to Tel Aviv. In a related case, a North African man has been charged with organizing a plot from Swiss soil to blow up the Spanish supreme court in Madrid.

    For years, even after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States, Swiss officials assumed that their country was one of the last places Islamic radicals would look to attack. Long considered a slice of neutral territory in a world full of conflicts, Switzerland trades on its status as home to the International Committee of the Red Cross and other diplomatic institutions.

    As the global jihad movement becomes more decentralized and fragmented, however, Swiss security officials are warning that their country could become a target.

    In an intelligence report completed in May, the Swiss Federal Police reversed previous assessments that the domestic risk of terrorism was nearly nonexistent. The report concluded that Switzerland had become "a jihadi field of operation" and predicted that terrorist attacks were "an increasing possibility."

    In Neutral Switzerland, A Rising Radicalism - washingtonpost.com
    Then there is the Telegraph article:

    "We're enormously happy. It is a victory for this people, this Switzerland, this freedom and those who want a democratic society," Walter Wobmann, president of the initiative committee, said in a victory speech. "We just want to stop further Islamisation in Switzerland."
    As recently as two weeks ago, opinion polls showed 53 per cent would reject the ban and just 37 per cent would support it. But yesterday's results showed a swing to 57.5 per cent in favour (1.534 million people), 42.5 per cent against (1.135 million people) and 22 of the 26 cantons also in support of the initiative.
    Switzerland uses direct democracy for single-issue politics, meaning citizens have the last word on many important political decisions.
    The backing from both cantons and voters means the words "the construction of minarets is forbidden" will be added to article 72 of the country's constitution.

    Switzerland risks Muslim backlash after minarets vote - Telegraph

    Bottom line is that you said earlier that Muslims in Switzerland voted for the ban to show that they were in solidarity with the people of Switzerland, the articles talking about this seem to suggest the opposite.

    Can you explain?


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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I don't despise you at all. I think you are quite nice, in fact.


    I do not think it is at all rational, however, to deny this symbolism which is so very consistant with a pattern established over 1500 years of Muslim conquest and subjugation. It is the fact that choosing such symbolic sites to erect their monuments to victory is such a part of this pattern that belies all the blather they are offering as far as their intent. This is a provocative, in your face gesture which will be used to help propel the Ummah, especially since we are failing this audacious act calculated to test our mettle by showing cowardice, lack of resolve and especially a lack of understanding as to what it symbolizes to the Islamists.
    I've seen you bring up this argument before. I understand your concerns with the symbolism angle and the historical precedent. One of my countries, Spain, still harbors the (quite magnificent, actually) evidence of past Muslim conquest. I'm just not really convinced that this is what this project is all about. I've chosen to give it the benefit of the doubt.

    Mind you, I'm perfectly able to radically change my mind on this if actual proof is presented on the nefarious intentions of the project leaders. Another thing that doesn't sit well with me, even though I've kept out of that part of the debate, is the planned groundbreaking date. I'm still waiting for an official confirmation on that.
    I'd also have zero problems with the future community center being shut down if it turns out to be anything other than what they claim it will be. I don't see how they're gonna pull anything even remotely dodgy off, though, what with all the scrutiny they'll be under and everything.
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Can you explain?


    j-mac
    Absolutely and gladly. If you think this is the first time someone has pulled that old article on me, you're quite mistaken.

    The people referred to by the Swiss police in the article are not residents, nor citizens of this country. They are using our country as a platform for terrorism, like they use other European countries like the UK or Spain. Up until recently, given the peaceful nature and the ethnicity of our Muslim population, we thought we were immune to this sort of activity. It turns out that no country is immune to the presence of international terrorists on their soil. Not even our neutral little country.

    These people are ethnically and culturally different from the majority of actual Swiss Muslims. As I pointed out previously, our Muslim population is primarily comprised of people from the Balkans. They are well integrated, hard working people who have been making great efforts to become citizens of this country. Anyone who's tried to gain citizenship here knows what a long, expensive and demanding process it is. Is everything roses and fairy tales? Of course not! Like all immigrant populations, they bring with them their share of issues. The problems we have with this particular group of people have absolutely nothing to do with Islamic terrorism and everything to do with the deep psychological scars some of them still harbor because of what happened to them in Kosovo. Some turn to a life of petty crime. Nothing really major.

    Please, understand the difference between international terrorist groups and actual legal residents and citizens. The latter has next to nothing to do with the former.
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post

    Mind you, I'm perfectly able to radically change my mind on this if actual proof is presented on the nefarious intentions of the project leaders. Another thing that doesn't sit well with me, even though I've kept out of that part of the debate, is the planned groundbreaking date. I'm still waiting for an official confirmation on that.

    Well, here are some direct statements regarding Sharia right from the horses mouth.:

    Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf: What Shariah Law Is All About


    whereing he insists that Sharia is "God's Law", actually compares it to the Declaration of independence, and offers some b.s. as to its effect upon women.

    Since sharia is his goal, why should we believe him?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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