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Thread: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Oof, you guys exhaust me. So, once again digging through all the profanity and rhetoric, let's get to the core of your argument here:

    You say they're trying to "incite".

    Incite what exactly?
    Anger.

    They aren't just putting a huge garish Mosque right next to Ground Zero, they're holding the ground breaking ceremony on 9-11, if their intent wasn't clear before it is now.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Anger.

    They aren't just putting a huge garish Mosque right next to Ground Zero, they're holding the ground breaking ceremony on 9-11, if their intent wasn't clear before it is now.
    Can you link that claim please?

    And what if they did the groundbreaking on 9/11 and dedicated to the victims, had a ceremony for them and a minutes silence and everything that went with it...?

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It doesn't change the fact that your original post that I took issue with was blown out of the water by the existence of the twelvers.


    j-mac
    Ok, then.

    My original post was for the lolz anyway. So let's get back to the "chaos" theory. What's the purpose of inciting chaos? Ric, in this thread, claims that they're infiltrating Western society and that they're doing so insidiously. If that is true, it sort of contradicts your chaos theory as it would totally sabotage their quiet infiltration strategy.
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Ok, then.

    My original post was for the lolz anyway. So let's get back to the "chaos" theory. What's the purpose of inciting chaos? Ric, in this thread, claims that they're infiltrating Western society and that they're doing so insidiously. If that is true, it sort of contradicts your chaos theory as it would totally sabotage their quiet infiltration strategy.

    Nah, I believe it works hand in hand. See the twelvers believe that in order to bring back the Mhadi they must incite total global war, and destruction. What better way to do this, and slay the infidels at the same time than to inflitrate, take over, and impose Islam on the world?


    j-mac
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Except that 9/11 wasn't "unprovoked."
    9-11 was a completely unprovoked attack.

    I said we'd never been at war with Islam. We have had problems with Muslims in our history, as well as with Christians, Buddhists, atheists, etc.
    Islam has been at war with us since nearly our founding. The Barbary pirates were attacking us and using Islam as their justification.

    Let's talk about the history of the democratic movement in Iran, a movement you say is incompatible with Islam. It started over 100 years ago with the Constitutional Revolution, which instituted democratic reforms based on Western governments. Mossadegh was a veteran of this revolution, the first of its kind in the Middle East. The next half-century was an ongoing struggle between the constitutionalists, who wanted to limit the power of the monarch, and the shahs, who wanted to turn the parliament into a rubber stamp. With the help of Britain and other outside forces, the shahs mostly kept the upper hand until the Majlis elected Mossadegh prime minister based on his broad popular support.
    Ah the hero Mossadeq who overthrew the Iranian Constitutional Monarchy by dissolving parliament through a fraudulent referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yay vote.

    The US and Britain soon began working to undermine Mossadegh through bribery, incitement of violence, and false accusations that he was a communist.
    As he aligned with the Soviets and the Soviet Tudeh party formed in Northern Iran during the Soviet occupation which was only brought to an end through U.S. intervention on Iran's behalf.

    As a committed liberal, Mossadegh never curtailed freedom of the press even when it was spreading CIA propaganda. The Shah then tried to dismiss him without the consent of parliament, an action that was not only legally questionable but so contrary to popular opinion that he had to flee the country when it was discovered. It was only with the support of the American and British conspirators that he was able to return and establish a dictatorship, which became notorious for its human rights abuses and suppression of civil liberties.
    What Parliament? There was no Parliament to have consent, because Mossadeq unconstitutionally dissolved Parliament and granted himself the power to make law by decree through a fraudulent referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yay vote. It was only after Mossadeq dissolved Parliament that the Shah ordered his dismissal.

    Mossadegh, for his part, remains a hero of the Green Movement and a symbol of the Iranians' century-old struggle for democracy. To deny his role in the democratic movement is the real historical "revisionism." What's even worse is to deny Muslims' capacity for self-governance when a majority of Iranians are clearly working for exactly that. The mullahs don't represent their views, contrary to what you seem to believe.
    Ya Mossadeq supported democracy by helping to destroy it.

    I don't know that there is proof, but it seems likely based on CIA communications, communications from the Turkish military to the State Department,
    What communications? I see no communications listing in that link.

    and American troop movements preceeding the coup, among other things.
    So an alleged NATO war game that allegedly took place on Turkish soil with troops who took no part in the coup which the only citation for is a wiki article that cites back to a none reviewable journal published by a leftist Alternative Türkeihilfe somehow equates to evidence of U.S. complicity in the coup?

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nah, I believe it works hand in hand. See the twelvers believe that in order to bring back the Mhadi they must incite total global war, and destruction. What better way to do this, and slay the infidels at the same time than to inflitrate, take over, and impose Islam on the world?


    j-mac
    If that is really their intent, they're not thinking very clearly. If a global war breaks out, there's no way any Muslim nation will come out on top, let alone ever have a chance to dominate the world.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Can you link that claim please?
    Tempers are heating up in the New York City area over the plans by the American Society for Muslim Advancement and another Islamic group known as the Cordoba Initiative to build a $100 million, 13-story, Islamic cultural center and mosque just two blocks from Ground Zero. And if that were not inflammatory enough, the plan is to inaugurate the new center on the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Another provocative aspect is the fact that the majority of the money will allegedly come from the Saudis. Furthermore, the Imam who helped found the Cordoba initiative after 9/11, Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf, is on record as telling CNN, right after the 9/11 attacks, "U.S. policies were an accessory to the crime that happened. We (the U.S.) have been an accessory to a lot of innocent lives dying in the world. Osama bin Laden was made in the USA."

    Rabbi Shmuley Boteach: Is a Giant Mosque at Ground Zero Justified?
    Plans are under way for a Muslim house of worship, topped by a 13-story cultural center with a swimming pool, in a building damaged by the fuselage of a jet flown by extremists into the World Trade Center.

    The opening date shall live in infamy: Sept. 11, 2011. The 10th anniversary of the day a hole was punched in the city's heart.

    Mosque madness at Ground Zero - NYPOST.com
    And what if they did the groundbreaking on 9/11 and dedicated to the victims, had a ceremony for them and a minutes silence and everything that went with it...?
    We'll see.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Dude, you're making my case for me.

    This was a popular initiative. Signatures were collected and a referendum vote was held. The results are constitutionally binding. The government DID NOT WANT this law to pass. The PEOPLE of this country always have the final say and the constitution was changed after the popular vote. I may not be happy about the result, personally. But our system of democracy was respected and I have no choice but to accept it. That doesn't change the fact that the people of Switzerland have ALWAYS held more power than their government. I am perfectly free to go out tomorrow and collect signatures to try and reverse the vote. If I'm successful and a majority of people vote for my initiative, the constitution will be changed once again. Do you understand that all it takes in this country to change the constitution is a popular vote?

    And you try to tell me that our politicians have any power whatsoever? Now THAT is comedy GOLD!
    Does the decision of the vote hamper certain Muslim activities in your nation... Yes or no?

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    We'll see.
    Doesn't seem that anything in those articles suggests FOR SURE it will be 9/11. I didn't now NYPOST was a solid source these days?

    If the opening of their article is "A mosque rises over Ground Zero."

    Sensationalism much? First of all, its a community centre, with a mosque inside. Second its two blocks away and won't "Rise" Over ground Zero.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Does the decision of the vote hamper certain Muslim activities in your nation... Yes or no?
    Not really. It just prevents them from adding a minaret to their Mosques. They're still free to build as many of those as they want.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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