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Thread: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    It's only insensitive because we still largely associate Islam with violence. I have to confess that even I did initially cringe at the idea. I thought "Oh, this is not good. A Mosque that close to Ground Zero, do they not see how inappropriate that is?". It was honestly my first gut reaction. But then I of course felt guilty for thinking this way. My mind was going to a place I did not like at all. Yeah, I guess it's insensitive in a way, but must all Muslims carry the shame of 9/11 with them? I'm not even all that convinced that Islam is the underlying cause for 9/11. I don't think the religion should be blamed for what I still see as a political attack.
    Ya um these people are clearly building this mosque in an effort to incite, they are not just building the Mosque right near ground zero they are actually holding the ground breaking ceremony on 9-11.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No they shouldn't but the public, whether we like or not, does associate the two together.
    Even religions have to play the public relations game.
    That's true. I think they did try to play the game, though. That's why the place is not actually a Mosque and will not look like a Mosque, but a regular building with a community center and a "praying area" inside it. From my Swiss perspective it seems like a good compromise (we're very big on that), but consensus has not been reached yet (we're very big on that too) so... I dunno. I think it should be up to the people of New York to decide.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    That's true. I think they did try to play the game, though. That's why the place is not actually a Mosque and will not look like a Mosque, but a regular building with a community center and a "praying area" inside it. From my Swiss perspective it seems like a good compromise (we're very big on that), but consensus has not been reached yet (we're very big on that too) so... I dunno. I think it should be up to the people of New York to decide.
    If they were trying to reach a compromise they wouldn't be holding the ground breaking on 9-11, they are doing this to incite plain and simple. They have the right to build it, we have the right to protest the mother ****ers until they decide its not worth it and find somewhere else to build their temple to violence and oppression.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Ya um these people are clearly building this mosque in an effort to incite, they are not just building the Mosque right near ground zero they are actually holding the ground breaking ceremony on 9-11.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    If they were trying to reach a compromise they wouldn't be holding the ground breaking on 9-11, they are doing this to incite plain and simple. They have the right to build it, we have the right to protest the mother ****ers until they decide its not worth it and find somewhere else to build their temple to violence and oppression.
    Oof, you guys exhaust me. So, once again digging through all the profanity and rhetoric, let's get to the core of your argument here:

    You say they're trying to "incite".

    Incite what exactly?
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I realize over in Iran they are still stoning people to death but we are not in Iran so why on Earth should we put the label of a 3rd world country on the shoulders of the large and peaceful group of American Muslims. I am absolutley sick of hearing "They still stone people to death". Yeah they do, in Iran not the U.S.A. I personally do not support religion one bit but it's here to stay during my lifetime and I live in a Country that has religious freedom woven into it's fabric. I sure as hell will see to it that every religion is treated fairly. What many of you doing by painting all of Islam as the guilty of 9/11 is wrong.

    Oh I'm sorry...Was it Buddhists that flew those planes? Was it Krishna's? Beating their tambourines all the way in? No sir, it was Muslims. And believe it or not there were factions right here in the streets of America that were cheering them. I don't condemn the entire religion, hell, I don't know the entire religion, but I do know this, things like "Honor Killings" are right here in America.

    Muslim women overseas have long had to deal with the threat of honor killings, but several incidents in recent years show that the threat has come to American soil.

    Honor Killings Come to America
    You bury your head and think because you refuse to recognize a threat, that it disappears? Do you also hide under your bed telling yourself that you heard nothing when there is a bump in the night? Meanwhile the burglar is in your house taking your stereo? Cowards do this.

    You say you are sick and tired of people generalizing the entirety of the Muslim population when it comes to the events of 9/11 and other acts around the world taking place, and contort in amazing positions trying to meld them as just like any other religion, including Christianity. Problem is friend, these acts by Muslims are happening right now! And you have to travel history, in some cases back thousands of years to smear Christianity with that brush of yours.


    If a pack of radical Christians were to have rammed Jets into the twin towers we would not see such an objection if a YMCA with a chapel inside it being built within two blocks of the site, You all know you wouldn't appose that. It comes down to the core of religion. You all think that Muslims are misguided and on the wrong path, how would they find popularity in an overwhelmingly Christian country? You see, Islam has just as much of a chance being true as Christianity. Which is why I think it's laughable about how some of you argue about which religion is better, American Muslims are good people they are not like there counterparts in the middle east so quit putting that label on them.

    If, it is always if with you libs isn't it? Your little fantasy makes no sense what so ever! You would compare a pure lunatic hypothetical to real events in an attempt to cow everyone else into silence for the Muslims that are plotting now to kill. Well, good for you. You are quite the useful dupe of the radical muslim scheme. Problem for you though, is that when the radicals are done with your usefulness, they will kill you just as fast as they would me, and why? Because you are still a Kafur in their eyes.

    Wake up man! learn a little, and stop being a tool of propaganda for this country's enemy. You can disagree with the precept of war all you want, but when you'd rather support our enemies rather than edify your own countrymen then I have a huge problem.


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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Oof, you guys exhaust me. So, once again digging through all the profanity and rhetoric, let's get to the core of your argument here:

    You say they're trying to "incite".

    Incite what exactly?

    Chaos! It is spelled out clearly in the Koran.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Chaos! It is spelled out clearly in the Koran.


    j-mac



    I think you've got the wrong religion.

    Discordianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The Barbary wars were started by the acts of unjustified aggression perpetrated by followers of Islam who used Islam to justify their actions, that is exactly the same as the current situation in which the U.S. was hit in an unprovoked act of war perpetrated by Islamic supremacists who used Islam to justify their actions.
    Except that 9/11 wasn't "unprovoked."

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    The Barbary Pirates were the AQ of their time, you asserted that we have never had a problem with Islam, that it is we who have provoked them, this is a lie not only because we did nothing to bring this on ourselves but because they have been unjustifiably attacking the U.S. nearly since our founding.

    Islam has been violent and expansionist since Mohammad perpetrated genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Jewish Banu tribes of the Arabian penninsula. Are you saying that after Mohammad that Islam suddenly became peaceful? When exactly did this peaceful Islam exist only for the evil west to bring the violence out of them? Why exactly do you blame the victim for the actions of the attacker?
    I said we'd never been at war with Islam. We have had problems with Muslims in our history, as well as with Christians, Buddhists, atheists, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    Ya you are a historical newbie here aren't you? No matter how many times I have to smash down you revisionist historians it never gets old. Mossadeq was not elected, he was appointed by the Shah, upon being appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Majiles he proceeded to dissolve the Iranian Parliament through a fraudulent referendum and extend his emergency powers indefinately, it wasn't a coup against Mossadeq it was a counter coup by the Iranian Constitutional Monarchy.
    Let's talk about the history of the democratic movement in Iran, a movement you say is incompatible with Islam. It started over 100 years ago with the Constitutional Revolution, which instituted democratic reforms based on Western governments. Mossadegh was a veteran of this revolution, the first of its kind in the Middle East. The next half-century was an ongoing struggle between the constitutionalists, who wanted to limit the power of the monarch, and the shahs, who wanted to turn the parliament into a rubber stamp. With the help of Britain and other outside forces, the shahs mostly kept the upper hand until the Majlis elected Mossadegh prime minister based on his broad popular support.

    The US and Britain soon began working to undermine Mossadegh through bribery, incitement of violence, and false accusations that he was a communist. As a committed liberal, Mossadegh never curtailed freedom of the press even when it was spreading CIA propaganda. The Shah then tried to dismiss him without the consent of parliament, an action that was not only legally questionable but so contrary to popular opinion that he had to flee the country when it was discovered. It was only with the support of the American and British conspirators that he was able to return and establish a dictatorship, which became notorious for its human rights abuses and suppression of civil liberties.

    Mossadegh, for his part, remains a hero of the Green Movement and a symbol of the Iranians' century-old struggle for democracy. To deny his role in the democratic movement is the real historical "revisionism." What's even worse is to deny Muslims' capacity for self-governance when a majority of Iranians are clearly working for exactly that. The mullahs don't represent their views, contrary to what you seem to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    Proof or GTFO.
    I don't know that there is proof, but it seems likely based on CIA communications, communications from the Turkish military to the State Department, and American troop movements preceeding the coup, among other things.
    Last edited by Winston Smith; 07-27-10 at 10:17 AM.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Do you think, Islam is a religion that allows for peaceful coexistence with other religions in the long term?
    According to some interpretations, yes. It's up to them what they make of Islam in the future, but we can encourage them in the right direction.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post


    I think you've got the wrong religion.

    Discordianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




    If it was a bunch of sekret Nazi Discordians building that mosque, can you just imagine?!

    There are not enough mittens in the world to congratulate someone who sinks an entire nation!



    TED,
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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