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Thread: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

  1. #421
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    No, you are the one who is confused. You are neglecting this part in the point you are trying to make that you have to consider everybody who is part of Islam and not just exclude the radicals.
    Again, I did not in any way exclude the radicals in my estimation of Islam. What I did was to look at Muslims in whole, and say to myself, "What's the general norm? Are the majority of Muslims peaceful, or not?" Since I don't see any evidence that suggests that the vast majority of Muslims are anything but peaceful, it stands to reason that the violent Muslims are very much in the minority and therefore "radical."

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    Anybody can say 'the majority were peaceful', that in fact goes for every religion, probably even Christianity, because the majority of peasant farmers were peaceful. Saying that is just a way of escaping accountability for the effects of the religion, because you can't just say the majority are peaceful and exclude anyone who is violent.
    Wait -- so you're saying it doesn't matter if the vast minority of Muslims are violent? The peaceful majority is to be held accountable for the actions of the nujobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    It they were peaceful protests, it wouldn't be less of a problem, but its the manner in which they were protesting, where they burned effigies and burned the Danish flag.
    Um, by that description, they were peaceful protests. Peaceful doesn't mean "not angry" or "not symbolically burning things."

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    Anyways, it shows general intolerance of any kind of criticism.
    Then I guess DP is just packed full of radicals, huh?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #422
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Jihad isn't purely a 'radical' belief or focus. . . Jihad, in essence, is actually spreading the word (just like Jehova's witnesses coming to your door or missionaries going to other countries to build churches in exchange for medical care)

    But Jihad is in several parts - one is to better yourself as a Muslim, another part is to witness to others and try to get them to convert (tehse first two parts is something that all religions have in common) and another part is to wage a physical war on your adversaries after you've tried to convert as many as possible to the faith.

    However- 'racial' islam in our modern view is anyone who is willing to commit an act of violence/terrorism in the name of their religion - mainly so without the support of their head-leaders.
    The Koran says that all the world is to be converted to Islam, either through conversion or by killing the pagans. This is jihad, the struggle, and is one of the pillars of faith. Every good muslim is to "struggle" and advance Islam.

    Do you think thats a reasonable and fair assessment. If not, why?

  3. #423
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    At different times Muslim societies have been prosperous and poor, tolerant and oppressive, influential and backward. And of course Muslims can have any kind of political beliefs, from libertarian to Marxist. Islam isn't a monolithic ideology.
    Do you think, Islam is a religion that allows for peaceful coexistence with other religions in the long term?

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The Koran says that all the world is to be converted to Islam, either through conversion or by killing the pagans. This is jihad, the struggle, and is one of the pillars of faith. Every good muslim is to "struggle" and advance Islam.

    Do you think thats a reasonable and fair assessment. If not, why?
    The Bible commands Jews and Christians to do all sorts of nasty things, but we don't condemn them for the contents of their holy book.

    Well, I don't anyway.


    TED,
    Choses to judge others based on what they do, not on their bathroom reading material.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    You said and I quote:

    "We haven't always been at war with Islam. It's only since we've interfered in their business that it's become such a big issue."

    That is false, we have been attacked by Muslims since nearly the founding of this country.
    The Barbary Wars were a minor incident and were soon forgotten. They were nothing like the ongoing problems we've had throughout the second half of the last century and can expect to have for the foreseeable future. The difference has everything to do with how we handle things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    WTF do the conquistadores have to do with the current conversation?
    About as much as the Barbary pirates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    Bull****, Islam has been expanding by the sword since its very inception. The Islamic powers were just as imperialistic as the European powers.
    You're right...Muslims in general are about as imperialistic as Christians. I'm glad we agree on that. This means they can be peaceful or violent, depending on the circumstances. In the case of radical Islam as we know it today, the West has fostered the tendency to violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    Bull****. There have been no great democratic movements in the Muslims world. There have been Arab nationalist movements and Islamist movements along with some Communist movements, name the Liberal Democratic movement that the U.S. has opposed in the Muslim world.
    Iran in 1953, for example. Probably also Turkey in 1980.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Between what? Pro-American and anti-American genocide?
    Between America and some genocidal regime.

    Yes, it is. If you're pointing out that America changed over time and that the democratic United States were different from the theocratic colonies that existed a few generations before, congratulations. You're starting to get it.
    Congragulations you pointed to an article referencing an era before the United States was even a country to show that prove some act or another committed by the United States.


    No, if you read the link you'll see that it has nothing to do with that. It's about death penalty laws in the early 1700s that applied only to blacks.
    In the early 1700s before the formation of the United States. And exactly why are you using actions from 300 years ago in an attempt to justify the actions of today?

    The name of the case isn't given. What difference does it make?
    The name of the case isn't given probably because no such case ever took place.

    Lawrence v. Texas doesn't necessarily apply to adultery, and even if it does, it's only seven years old.
    Lawrence V. Texas found a right to privacy in consensual sexual relations so it sure as hell would. Tell me sir when is the last time anyone was ever put in jail for adultery in the U.S., oh and do name the case rather than cite an named case listed by an advertisement for a law firm so we can ascertain the veracity of the claim being made.

    Maybe.
    But we will never know for sure because she has gone missing and I presume dead.

    That's your opinion.
    No that's a fact.

    But many Muslims choose to work and struggle for free societies despite our efforts to deny them.
    I didn't mention Muslims I said Islam, and mainstream Islam only accepts the death penalty and/or corporal punishment for adultery, apostasy, sodomy, and premarital sex.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    The Bible commands Jews and Christians to do all sorts of nasty things, but we don't condemn them for the contents of their holy book.

    Well, I don't anyway.


    TED,
    Choses to judge others based on what they do, not on their bathroom reading material.
    Islam has never gone through a renaissance or a reformation. Why?

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    How you just phrased it will do nicely, thanks.



    So what? The only way he could even come close would be via contract law. The First Amendment, which I can't imagine would ever be repealed or modified to his tastes, outlaws virtually any other approach.

    We have people in lawmaking positions right now that don't consider the Constitution any obstruction to their will.


    So what?

    So what? Do you denounce Hamas as a terror org? Or do you support them?

    Nobody's business.

    I would think it is if it is coming from a terror group, or Iran at a time of war.

    I think, unless sufficient evidence is uncovered that the law is being broken or there's a conspiracy to break it, we have no grounds whatsoever for knowing who is behind it.

    Plenty of cases where the over burdensome hand of government steps in to push, or stop something that you have no problem with as long as it is effecting Americans, now that it is a Muslim Imam jabbing a finger in America's eye with this travesty, you're ok with it....And you libs wonder why it is that we on the right claim that liberals side with America's enemies.


    j-mac
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Islam has never gone through a renaissance or a reformation. Why?
    I think you're due for one. You're hateful arguments are sure getting old buddy.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    The Barbary Wars were a minor incident and were soon forgotten. They were nothing like the ongoing problems we've had throughout the second half of the last century and can expect to have for the foreseeable future. The difference has everything to do with how we handle things.
    The Barbary wars were started by the acts of unjustified aggression perpetrated by followers of Islam who used Islam to justify their actions, that is exactly the same as the current situation in which the U.S. was hit in an unprovoked act of war perpetrated by Islamic supremacists who used Islam to justify their actions.

    About as much as the Barbary pirates.
    The Barbary Pirates were the AQ of their time, you asserted that we have never had a problem with Islam, that it is we who have provoked them, this is a lie not only because we did nothing to bring this on ourselves but because they have been unjustifiably attacking the U.S. nearly since our founding.

    You're right...Muslims in general are about as imperialistic as Christians. I'm glad we agree on that. This means they can be peaceful or violent, depending on the circumstances. In the case of radical Islam as we know it today, the West has fostered the tendency to violence.
    Islam has been violent and expansionist since Mohammad perpetrated genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Jewish Banu tribes of the Arabian penninsula. Are you saying that after Mohammad that Islam suddenly became peaceful? When exactly did this peaceful Islam exist only for the evil west to bring the violence out of them? Why exactly do you blame the victim for the actions of the attacker?

    Iran in 1953, for example.
    Ya you are a historical newbie here aren't you? No matter how many times I have to smash down you revisionist historians it never gets old. Mossadeq was not elected, he was appointed by the Shah, upon being appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Majiles he proceeded to dissolve the Iranian Parliament through a fraudulent referendum and extend his emergency powers indefinately, it wasn't a coup against Mossadeq it was a counter coup by the Iranian Constitutional Monarchy.

    Probably also Turkey in 1980.
    Proof or GTFO.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-26-10 at 06:08 PM.

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