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Thread: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

  1. #311
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Go ahead. Show us where we are wrong.

    Show us all the religous freedom that Muslim dominated countries dish out.
    Wait, so the actions of autocratic, corrupt governments reflect on a religion of 1.2 billion? Well by this standard I guess this makes all Latinos Fascists, Chinese totalitarians, and Blacks blood-thristy warlords.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Then explain how America deserved 9.11

    I'll wait.
    Nobody here or the Cordoba Institute said that America deserved 9-11. They said that our foreign policy pissed fundamentalists off. There is a difference between explanation and justification.
    "Doubleplusungood"

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Muslim countries have a mix of freedom and discrimination. What you need to understand is that the discrimination isn't just against non-Muslims. It's also against Muslims who believe the Koran but don't interpret it a certain way. See this article for example:
    How does that excuse the severe lack of religious freedom in Muslim dominated countries? It doesn't.

    And the differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims have NOTHING to do with Islam's stance on non believers, women or religious text that bare any point to the discussion here:

    Shia Muslims believe that the Imam is sinless by nature, and that his authority is infallible as it comes directly from God. Therefore, Shia Muslims often venerate the Imams as saints and perform pilgrimages to their tombs and shrines in the hopes of divine intercession.

    Sunni Muslims counter that there is no basis in Islam for a hereditary privileged class of spiritual leaders, and certainly no basis for the veneration or intercession of saints. Sunni Muslims contend that leadership of the community is not a birthright, but a trust that is earned and which may be given or taken away by the people themselves.


    What's the Difference Between Shia and Sunni Muslims?

    There are different interpretations of Islam, and as I said before, Muslims who don't interpret it the way you and Bin Laden do have suffered greatly from terrorist attacks in their own countries. Those are our potential allies, but they won't be allies if we demonize them and ignorantly smear them together with Al Qaeda and the like.
    Yet not a single Muslim country has a majority of people in ANY poll where Bin Laden is considered evil.

    There goes your theory.

    No one has said the US deserved 9/11. We did invite it, however, with our military presence in the Middle East, our lopsided support of Israel, and our decimation of Iraq's civilian population. Bin Laden has stated this pretty clearly.
    Of course, he knew our reaction in the short term would be more of the same. He cynically escalated the conflict in the hope of uniting Muslims against a common enemy and reviving his unpopular, failing ideology. Unfortunately, there were plenty of extremists in our own government who were more than happy to give him his "war of civilizations." Osama couldn't have hoped for better allies than Dick Cheney and company.
    And you being the Bin Laden supporter ignore the fact that we pulled out of Saudi Arabia before the Afgan invasion and he still attacked nor were we in Iraq. Your excuses for Bin Laden's claims for justification are truely pathetic.

    How about we read what Bin Laden told his followers about the real reason he attacked us.

    In 2003 on the first day of the Muslim holy celebration of Eid al-Adha, the Feat of Sacrifice, he began a sermon:

    "Praise be to Allah who revealed the verse of the Sword to his Servant and messenger in order to establish truth and abolish falsehood."

    What does the verse of the Sword say?

    Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

    Bin Laden's supporters like you who soak up his lies about his justification for attacking can always find an excuse to continue the murder of Americans.

    You give Bin Laden his power. Terrorist supporters like you who justify attacks on Americans by believing what the terrorists claim in speeches to the West while ignoring the speeches they give to their own people which reveals the true justification for attacking the West.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    How does that excuse the severe lack of religious freedom in Muslim dominated countries? It doesn't.

    And the differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims have NOTHING to do with Islam's stance on non believers, women or religious text that bare any point to the discussion here:

    Shia Muslims believe that the Imam is sinless by nature, and that his authority is infallible as it comes directly from God. Therefore, Shia Muslims often venerate the Imams as saints and perform pilgrimages to their tombs and shrines in the hopes of divine intercession.

    Sunni Muslims counter that there is no basis in Islam for a hereditary privileged class of spiritual leaders, and certainly no basis for the veneration or intercession of saints. Sunni Muslims contend that leadership of the community is not a birthright, but a trust that is earned and which may be given or taken away by the people themselves.


    What's the Difference Between Shia and Sunni Muslims?



    Yet not a single Muslim country has a majority of people in ANY poll where Bin Laden is considered evil.

    There goes your theory.



    And you being the Bin Laden supporter ignore the fact that we pulled out of Saudi Arabia before the Afgan invasion and he still attacked nor were we in Iraq. Your excuses for Bin Laden's claims for justification are truely pathetic.

    How about we read what Bin Laden told his followers about the real reason he attacked us.

    In 2003 on the first day of the Muslim holy celebration of Eid al-Adha, the Feat of Sacrifice, he began a sermon:

    "Praise be to Allah who revealed the verse of the Sword to his Servant and messenger in order to establish truth and abolish falsehood."

    What does the verse of the Sword say?

    Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

    Bin Laden's supporters like you who soak up his lies about his justification for attacking can always find an excuse to continue the murder of Americans.

    You give Bin Laden his power. Terrorist supporters like you who justify attacks on Americans by believing what the terrorists claim in speeches to the West while ignoring the speeches they give to their own people which reveals the true justification for attacking the West.
    What does any of this to do with the Cordoba Institute?
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  4. #314
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Wait, so the actions of autocratic, corrupt governments reflect on a religion of 1.2 billion? Well by this standard I guess this makes all Latinos Fascists, Chinese totalitarians, and Blacks blood-thristy warlords.
    This is what happens when you jump into an argument already in progress and don't research the argument. The claim was that Muslim dominated countries support religious freedom. I proved that laughably inaccurate.

    Try to keep up.

    Nobody here or the Cordoba Institute said that America deserved 9-11. They said that our foreign policy pissed fundamentalists off. There is a difference between explanation and justification.
    No. Thats justification not explanation and it ignores what Bin Laden has told his own people the real reason.

    Tell me, if being in Saudi Arabia was the reason as Bin Laden first claimed, why did he keep attacking before the Afgan war and after we pulled out?

    Its simple. Those were never the reasons. Terrorists will always find justification and the true enemy are the people in the west who justify the attacks by accepting the explanations for the attacks by the terrorists themselves in speeches to the West.
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-25-10 at 03:03 PM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    What does any of this to do with the Cordoba Institute?
    For the love of God would you please research the arguments you are jumping into before making false assumptions as to what we are arguing?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Al Qaeda would love you.
    LOL I'm sure they love you more.

    Your image of Islam is exactly what they wish every Muslim followed.
    My image is based on what the book says. You should actually try reading it.

    If all 1.2billion of us had it in for US there is no army big enough to stop us
    It's a good thing the majority of us Muslims are not hate filled bigots eh.
    Still the same bull**** line I see. You once again ignore the fact that I never said all Muslims are fundamentalists. If they were, you bet we would have a far larger problem. the lack of reform however and the lack of speaking out against the fundamentalists does show the literal interpretation of the book is alive and well as you proved in your own words pages ago.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

  7. #317
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I tell ya what... I, being the magnanimous person I am....We let them build it then claim eminent domain. We demolish, the **** outta it and, we build a museum of fine arts in its place

    I think its a good plan
    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    You and others attacked me because my ideas were "unconstitutional". Now, eminent domain which is clearly legal (Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution) is being discussed and you're, the one thats foaming out of the mouth...lol

    Now, who is the hypocrite?
    How, exactly, is standing by and watching someone build something on their property, then using eminent domain to take that property away and destroy the completed construction in any way a Constitutional use of eminent domain? Why didn't you claim it before they built their mosque?

    For that matter, how can you seriously argue that New York city needs not only another museum, but another museum right on that spot?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #318
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    This is why I have such an issue with the Muslim faith and the way our media, politicians and seemingly, most people are portraying it. The fundamentalist, "kill the infidel" types are called radical, islamo-fascists and we say they are not true Muslims. The moderates we want to deal with are the true Muslims. No!!! Sorry, wrong ****ing answer. The radicals are the ones who are TRUE to their faith and that is why we will NEVER have peace with Islam. We will be at war with any Muslim who TRULY believes that the Koran is the word from Allah and Mohammed is his prophet.
    Thanks for proving my point with your blind fear of Islam.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #319
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Not every muslim is a fundamentalist. But every muslim is a potential fundamentalist. You may wind up like that
    Not every human is a mass-murderer. But every human is a potential mass-murderer. You may wind up like that

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    We have achieved a level of technological and military superiority such that no Islamic army can face a modern western army on the open battlefield and hope to survive. So, you people have turned to un-conventional warfare to balance the odds, because we are against (for some pussy **** up reason) to the use of force that eliminates your civilian shield.
    You people? Are you seriously lumping Laila in with militants?

    That said, I think similar complaints could've been lodge by the Brits against the way our forefathers fought the Revolution -- we refused to line up in nice neat rows before them on the field of battle. Instead we snuck about and sniped and ambushed.

    That the militants aren't engaging us as we expect to be engaged isn't a sign of cowardice, it's a sign of intelligence. Read The Art of War, their tactics read like a study of that book.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Your Muslim brothers and sisters are advancing geographically in a different way. Muslims are taking advantage of the west's openness and principles of human freedom to immigrate, populate, and eventually, dominate with Sharia Law

    Thats YOUR ultimate plan, lady
    Could you, please, make a decision about what group you're lumping Laila in with?

    You can't seem to decide if she's a sneaky ninja militant Muslim or if she's a sneaky ninja Sharia law Muslim.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #320
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    This is what happens when you jump into an argument already in progress and don't research the argument. The claim was that Muslim dominated countries support religious freedom. I proved that laughably inaccurate.

    Try to keep up.
    I read through the posts. My assertion is that what Muslim governments do is irrelevant to whether or not Islam is a mostly peaceful religion or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    No. Thats justification not explanation and it ignores what Bin Laden has told his own people the real reason.
    How is explaining that Al Qaeda saw our foreign policy as imperialist, pissing them off, justification? We're not saying that America was doing what Bin Laden said we were doing. It's explaining his point of view. I can't imagine that putting our troops in the Arabian peninsula and our relationship with Israel, justified or not, made us the best of friends with Bin Laden.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Tell me, if being in Saudi Arabia was the reason as Bin Laden first claimed, why did he keep attacking before the Afgan war and after we pulled out?
    Our culture, which Bin LAden saw as in conflict with his own, but there's a another reason. I'll give you a hint; it starts with an "I".

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Its simple. Those were never the reasons. Terrorists will always find justification and the true enemy are the people in the west who justify the attacks by accepting the explanations for the attacks by the terrorists themselves in speeches to the West.
    No one is justifying the attacks!! Since when is explanation justification? This is like saying that all forensic psychiatrists serial killers now.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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