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Thread: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

  1. #301
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Go ahead. Show us where we are wrong.

    Show us all the religous freedom that Muslim dominated countries dish out.

    Then explain how America deserved 9.11

    I'll wait.
    Muslim countries have a mix of freedom and discrimination. What you need to understand is that the discrimination isn't just against non-Muslims. It's also against Muslims who believe the Koran but don't interpret it a certain way. See this article for example:

    It finds that members of all religions in Iraq are “victims of harassment, intimidation, kidnapping, and killings” and that “frequent sectarian violence included attacks on places of worship.”

    Muslims who practice less-strict versions of their faith suffer because “conservative and extremist Islamic elements exert tremendous pressure on society to conform to their interpretations of Islam’s precepts,” the report says.
    Afghanistan: “Decades of war, years of Taliban rule, and weak democratic institutions, including a developing judiciary, have contributed to intolerance manifested in acts of harassment and violence against reform-minded Muslims and religious minorities,” it says.
    Saudi Arabia: “While overall government policies continue to place severe restrictions on religious freedom, there were some improvements in specific areas during the period covered by this report,” it says, noting nascent moves that “could lead to important improvements in the future.” Still, it says “non-Muslims and Muslims who do not adhere to the government’s interpretation of Islam continued to face significant political, economic, legal, social, and religious discrimination.”
    There are different interpretations of Islam, and as I said before, Muslims who don't interpret it the way you and Bin Laden do have suffered greatly from terrorist attacks in their own countries. Those are our potential allies, but they won't be allies if we demonize them and ignorantly smear them together with Al Qaeda and the like.

    No one has said the US deserved 9/11. We did invite it, however, with our military presence in the Middle East, our lopsided support of Israel, and our decimation of Iraq's civilian population. Bin Laden has stated this pretty clearly. Of course, he knew our reaction in the short term would be more of the same. He cynically escalated the conflict in the hope of uniting Muslims against a common enemy and reviving his unpopular, failing ideology. Unfortunately, there were plenty of extremists in our own government who were more than happy to give him his "war of civilizations." Osama couldn't have hoped for better allies than Dick Cheney and company.

  2. #302
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Kuwait,
    Homosexuality:

    LGBT rights in Kuwait - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Adultery:

    KuwaitPoint - Kuwaiti woman, Syrian jailed for adultery | Kuwait Crime

    Apostasy:

    Once found out, Husein Ali Qambar who by now had taken the name of Robert Husein Ali, stood up to the storm of reactions around him. Instead of hiding, he willingly met with the press, wearing a small silver cross around his neck, and to the question about why he had decided to become Christian, he candidly answered 'I have found God elsewhere'.

    Following the practice established by tradition, according to which the community must try to win back the apostate before punishing him/her, a group of learned men met several times with Qambar for the purpose of reconverting him. By January 1996, when it became clear that he would not give in to this amicable approach and recant his decision, popular anger began rising against Qambar. In the National Assembly an islamist deputy called for legal actions to be taken against the convert. Not long after, an islamist lawyer sued Qambar for apostasy. To the court, the plaintiff said that he hoped the lawsuit would make the accused 'regret and reverse his decision or else be officially declared an apostate and bear the consequences'. Meanwhile, the home of the convert was vandalized, he was entirely barred from seeing his children, and when his father passed away, he was forbidden from receiving his share of the inheritance. Gradually, the number of people suing Qambar for apostasy grew. At the same time, he found no lawyers willing to defend him. In May 1996 the judge in the shi'a lower court issued a ruling that officially declared Qambar an apostate and recommended that the death penalty be pronounced against him. Qambar appealed against the apostasy ruling. His appeal was to be reviewed in September 1996. One month before that date, the authorities issued Qambar a passport and he left Kuwait for the USA. What happened in the following months, I don't know because my fieldwork for that year had come to an end and I had to leave for Norway. But when I returned to Kuwait for a brief visit in November 1997, I learnt that Qambar had reconverted to Islam and was now back in the country.

    The apostasy law
    UAE,
    Adultery:

    British woman arrested in UAE on suspicion of adultery - Telegraph

    Homosexuality:

    LGBT rights in United Arab Emirates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Blasphemy:

    Blasphemy law in the United Arab Emirates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Bahrain,
    LGBT rights in Bahrain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Turkey,
    Correct. But then again they explicitly exclude religious parties from participating in the government, though the current administration has a decidedly Islamist bent and Turkey is currently moving in the wrong direction.

    Jordan
    Apostasy:

    WORLD Magazine | Apostasy rules | Mindy Belz | Apr 09, 05

    Blasphemy:

    Blasphemy law in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    .... they are some Muslim countries which allow freedoms.
    They are more liberal than most of the Islamic world I'll grant you that.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-25-10 at 10:37 AM.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I don't even know why some people just don't admit they hate Muslims. I'd have more respect for you Tex, Ric, Ferris if you just admitted it and we can stop pretending
    I already admitted that I hate Islam and anyone who does not hate oppression should is the enemy of liberty.

  4. #304
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Actually, you and Ferris are the ones who have consistently been toeing the Al Qaeda line. Your interpretation of the Koran with regard to religious freedom in Muslim societies is pretty close to Bin Laden's ideal. Fortunately, most Muslims don't agree with you.
    No sir I have not been "towing the AQ line" I have been stating quite clearly that the Ulama of all 5 mainstream schools of Islamic Fiqh have ruled through Ijma that corporal and/or capital punishment is the penalty for apostasy, sodomy, adultery, and/or premarital sex. That is not the radical fringe view, that is the only accepted view in mainstream Islam, the radical fringe views are the liberal ones.

    I never even once quoted the Koran.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Sodomy, adultery, and premarital sex have all been criminalized in the US to various extents. It's been less than ten years since the sodomy laws were held to be unconstitutional. Adultery is still a criminal offense carrying a potential life sentence in some states. If you go back far enough, you'll find that the American colonies imposed the death penalty for witchcraft and blasphemy. All these laws were enacted by people who read the same Bible we read. They just interpreted it differently.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Every Muslim believes the Qu'ran is the word of God and Prophet Mohammed is one of his messengers.

    Save me from the stupid
    Do you respect fundamentalism of any faith?

  7. #307
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Al Qaeda would love you.
    Your image of Islam is exactly what they wish every Muslim followed.
    Not every muslim is a fundamentalist. But every muslim is a potential fundamentalist. You may wind up like that

    If all 1.2billion of us had it in for US there is no army big enough to stop us
    It's a good thing the majority of us Muslims are not hate filled bigots eh.
    Go back and polish up on that....

    We have achieved a level of technological and military superiority such that no Islamic army can face a modern western army on the open battlefield and hope to survive. So, you people have turned to un-conventional warfare to balance the odds, because we are against (for some pussy **** up reason) to the use of force that eliminates your civilian shield.

    Your Muslim brothers and sisters are advancing geographically in a different way. Muslims are taking advantage of the west's openness and principles of human freedom to immigrate, populate, and eventually, dominate with Sharia Law

    Thats YOUR ultimate plan, lady

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Your Muslim brothers and sisters are advancing geographically in a different way. Muslims are taking advantage of the west's openness and principles of human freedom to immigrate, populate, and eventually, dominate with Sharia Law

    Thats YOUR ultimate plan, lady
    How fricking paranoid are you?

    (thats rhetorical)

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Ya this Mosque is a clear fist, they have every right to build it, but ask yourself one thing, why are they having the ground breaking ceremony on 9-11 of all days? Give me a ****ing break, these people need to be protested day in and day out until they decide to build their little temple to oppression somewhere the **** else.
    To remember the attack? They say their goal is reconciliation between non-Muslims and Muslims. This relationship was badly damaged by that attack, and the groundbreaking ceremony is trying to address that.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    How fricking paranoid are you?

    (thats rhetorical)
    Not at all....A large part of the Muslim pop just want to live their lives and raise their families like most people do, but they will do what their mullahs and imams tell them to do and religious loyalty trumps Western concepts of freedom and democracy. Most of them may not support terrorism, but they won't do anything to fight it.

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