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Thread: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

  1. #191
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I would remove Islam from the sphere of religious freedom and would not allow it's practice outside traditional Muslim countries. Its basic, core beliefs make it a threat to anyone and any country that isn't Muslim.
    And yet again, I'm glad the majority of people do NOT think like you. Your hatred in your comments is no better than the terrorists intolerance.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    This is a pretty good explanation of jihad I think: What is Jihad?

    I have a hard time accepting that there are going to be a lot of people using that mosque who have no problem with what happened on 9/11. I think they are going to look up at that empty sky and feel a certain amount of pride about it. I find it hard to truly wrap my head around the concept of the "peaceful" Muslim or at least peaceful Islam. I try to tell myself that I am wrong but with only half success.
    You might want to check your source, which is also where this article is from the same writer:

    Christian Compassion for the Disabled

    Still believe that he has it correct about Jihad? I don't think so. He has it twisted and comments taken out of text like many people do when they try to demonize an entire religion.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    the hysteria some conservatives are experiencing over this is hilarious!

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And yet again, I'm glad the majority of people do NOT think like you. Your hatred in your comments is no better than the terrorists intolerance.
    I believe, Muslim immigrants are part of a plot to take over the west. We have quarantine them. Keep them in their countries, don't accept them in our nation as immigrants. The fact is, Islam declares that the Koran is perfect and can't be altered. And if it can't be altered, the plain reading of the text calls for Jihad against all unbelievers.

    Btw- Why don't you address the state of Muslim immigration and birth in Western Europe, with particular attention to France and the UK? Then tell me that there's nothing to be concerned about.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    A) Every major school of Islamic dogma is inherently violent and oppressive, the Ulama has ruled through Ijma in every single one of the five major schools of Islamic Fiqh that apostasy, adultery, and sodomy are capital offenses (sodomy may sometimes be punished by corporal punishment) premarital sex is a crime to be punished by lashing, women receive less inheritence to men of equal relation to the deceased, etc. These are the only accepted view in any of the major Islamic sects. Mainstream Islam and liberalism are incompatible. That does not mean every single Muslim believes that but that speaks nothing to the position of Islam itself. It's like using a pro-choice Catholic to defend the Catholic Church on their anti-abortion stance, one says nothing about the other.

    B) Just ask yourself this, why out of the 365 days of the year did they decide to hold the ground breaking ceremony on 9-11 of all days? Sorry but their intent was clearly to incite and while they have the right to have their Mosque we have the right as a free society to protest their violent and oppressive ideological dogma. As I said they have the right to the mosque, but anyone defending the group itself can GFTS's.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-22-10 at 08:18 PM.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    The Muslims are simply exploiting an available weakness. That is why they are a risk, Islam calls for the subjugation and conversion of the world, by all means, including lying, murder and terror. Islam is the poster child of religious intolerance. When they have the power, they prohibit or forbid the practice of Christianity or Judaism, and still execute people of "pagan" religions. If you were a Muslim and and choose not to be Muslim any longer, Islamic law still calls for your execution.

    So as much as we may wish to be PC tolerant, every Muslim is a potential terrorist.

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And yet again, I'm glad the majority of people do NOT think like you. Your hatred in your comments is no better than the terrorists intolerance.
    Your ignorance about the lack of religious freedom in so many Muslim dominated countries shows you have no knowledge of the facts.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    I always love how the people most vehemently opposed to Islam are those who have come into contact with it the least. I wonder how many eeevil Mahslems ric27 has befriended or even talked to in his lifetime...

    EDIT: I know these aren't the same posters, but they do come from relatively the same camp and so I thought this was pretty funny:

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster
    Your ignorance about the lack of religious freedom in so many Muslim dominated countries shows you have no knowledge of the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by ric27
    I believe, Muslim immigrants are part of a plot to take over the west. We have quarantine them. Keep them in their countries, don't accept them in our nation as immigrants.
    Especially in light of the facts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Cole
    Finally, forbidding the building of a mosque in New York is inconsistent with the ideals of the Founding Generation of the United States of America, who explicitly mentioned Islam among the cases when they spoke of religious freedom:

    ‘George Washington asked in a March 24, 1784, letter to his aide Tench Tilghman that some craftsmen be hired for him: “If they are good workmen, they may be of Assia, [sic] Africa, or Europe. They may be Mahometans, [Muslims] Jews, or Christian of any Sect – or they may be Atheists …”

    Ben Franklin, the founding father of many important institutions in Philadelphia, a key diplomat and a framer of the US Constitution, wrote in his Autobiography concerning a non-denominational place of public preaching he helped found “so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service.” Here is the whole quote:

    ‘And it being found inconvenient to assemble in the open air, subject to its inclemencies, the building of a house to meet in was no sooner propos’d, and persons appointed to receive contributions, but sufficient sums were soon receiv’d to procure the ground and erect the building, which was one hundred feet long and seventy broad, about the size of Westminster Hall; and the work was carried on with such spirit as to be finished in a much shorter time than could have been expected. Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. ‘

    Thomas Jefferson wrote in his 1777 Draft of a Bill for Religious Freedom:

    ‘ that our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right . . . ‘

    As I observed on another occasion, it was Jefferson’s more bigotted opponents in the Virginia legislature who brought up the specter of Muslims and atheists being elected to it in the world Jefferson was trying to create. He was undeterred by such considerations, which should tell us something.

    I also once pointed out that John Locke had already advocated civil rights for non-Christians in his Letter on Toleration:

    ‘ Thus if solemn assemblies, observations of festivals, public worship be permitted to any one sort of professors [believers], all these things ought to be permitted to the Presbyterians, Independents, Anabaptists, Arminians, Quakers, and others, with the same liberty. Nay, if we may openly speak the truth, and as becomes one man to another, neither Pagan nor Mahometan, nor Jew, ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth because of his religion. The Gospel commands no such thing. ‘

    Here is Jefferson again: “The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, note in Destutt de Tracy, “Political Economy,” 1816.

    Or: “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

    The US Senate, full of founding fathers, and the Adams government, approved the Treaty with Tripoli (now Libya) of 1797, which included this language:

    “As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

    The treaty is important for showing the mindset of the fashioners of the American system. ‘

    And here is a final point for Ms. Palin and her ilk to consider. The United States was born of a war against the British crown, the state religion of which was the Anglican Church. Those Anglicans who insisted on swearing allegiance to King George III were viewed as the enemy. And, the British custom of ‘establishing’ the Anglican church in many of the colonies, i.e. making it the state religion, was renounced by the revolutionaries. But there was no question that apolitical Anglicans could practice their religion freely, found Anglican (“Episcopalian”) churches anywhere they liked (even in places where the Americans and British had waged fierce battles, like New York), and even go to Britain to arrange for the training of Episcopalian/Anglican priests.

    There is more. In 1787, Samuel Provoost was made the Episcopalian bishop of New York. He had been a Whig and a supporter of the Revolution even though an Anglican. In 1789, the US Senate made him its chaplain!

    So not only did the Founding Generation not harbor a grudge against the religion of the British Crown (which had tried to crush them), they were perfectly willing to give non-Tory Anglicans high official positions in the new Republic. It would be as though the the current chaplain of the Senate were a former al-Qaeda member who had broken with Bin Laden and declared allegiance to the United States.

    That is, the September 11 attacks were not the work of a foreign head of state supported by his state religion. No Muslim government supports al-Qaeda. But even if the attacks had been of that sort, the Founding Generation had already made a key distinction between religious practice and political loyalty, and had granted freedom of religion to non-Tory Anglicans.

    http://www.juancole.com/
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 07-23-10 at 01:40 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Your ignorance about the lack of religious freedom in so many Muslim dominated countries shows you have no knowledge of the facts.
    How ironic that you talk about lack of religious freedoms in Muslim dominated countries all the while thanking posters who support lack of religious freedom in the United States for Muslims by denying them the right to build their Mosque.

    Thank you for showing YOUR religious intolerance.

  10. #200
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    Re: Landmark commission hearing may determine future of ground zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I always love how the people most vehemently opposed to Islam are those who have come into contact with it the least.
    And I always love how readily people are so willing to be a perfect example for the phrase "Assumption is the mother of all **** ups"

    I wonder how many eeevil Mahslems ric27 has befriended or even talked to in his lifetime...
    So ric27 can't look at the facts and support his conclusion without knowing how many Muslims? How many should he know before you allow him to perform an argument and support it with factual data?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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