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Thread: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

  1. #11
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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Except that it seems the provisional government WANTS them there. Furthermore, that is where the pirates are based. It is an international problem that requires an international (preferably African) solution...
    Well of course the "government" wants them there, they can't even control the capital. They are not liked, wanted or needed by Somalis. They know they'd be torn apart if they went in without foreign troops helping them.

    Anarchy in land, piracy at sea. It was inevitable, I'm just surprised it didn't occur earlier.


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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Somalia is a classic example of a failed state. It is a territory with numerous tribal and ethnic rivalries. It lacks a government except in name only (the rump "government" is incapable of exercising jurisdiction and is seen by a large share of the population as illegitimate and worse). The area lacks the most basic institutions on which a nation depends: legal, political, and economic. Failed states are not very conducive to peacekeeping. Peacekeeping requires some basic institutions, so that efforts contribute toward keeping peace rather than trying to address the far more complex issues and violence associated with anarchy.

    Now some of Somalia's pathologies (rivalries, animosities, hostilities) and anarchy are spilling into a larger slice of East Africa e.g., the Al-Shabaab terrorist organization responsible for the attack in Uganda is taking its fight to neighboring states. IMO, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Kenya should focus on securing their regions that border Somalia rather than becoming involved in what is a failed state. Uganda could play a constructive role in helping those neighboring states do so.

    Whether or not the international community needs to take and hold the Somali coastline due to rampant piracy is a separate issue. Personally, I believe a more robust naval deployment with escorts for ships would be preferable, as land forces would face instability and violence typical of failed states.

  3. #13
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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Somalia is a classic example of a failed state. It is a territory with numerous tribal and ethnic rivalries. It lacks a government except in name only (the rump "government" is incapable of exercising jurisdiction and is seen by a large share of the population as illegitimate and worse). The area lacks the most basic institutions on which a nation depends: legal, political, and economic. Failed states are not very conducive to peacekeeping. Peacekeeping requires some basic institutions, so that efforts contribute toward keeping peace rather than trying to address the far more complex issues and violence associated with anarchy.
    Sadly, I have to agree with this.

    Now some of Somalia's pathologies (rivalries, animosities, hostilities) and anarchy are spilling into a larger slice of East Africa e.g., the Al-Shabaab terrorist organization responsible for the attack in Uganda is taking its fight to neighboring states. IMO, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Kenya should focus on securing their regions that border Somalia rather than becoming involved in what is a failed state. Uganda could play a constructive role in helping those neighboring states do so.
    I was reading more about this today and was not all that surprised to see this a-s group referring to Ugandan crusaders and U.S. proxy. It would be nice to see regional Islamic states play a constructive role, but they don't exactly have great track records (i.e. Sudan and Eritrea).

    Whether or not the international community needs to take and hold the Somali coastline due to rampant piracy is a separate issue. Personally, I believe a more robust naval deployment with escorts for ships would be preferable, as land forces would face instability and violence typical of failed states.
    Problem is that is a vast area of sea and it is a far more difficult proposition than most people think to cover that much sea. Ask anyone who has ever served at sea and they will tell you it is vast and you simply can't cover it all...
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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post

    Anarchy in land, piracy at sea. It was inevitable, I'm just surprised it didn't occur earlier.
    Same here. Apparently, they are also threatening Burundi as well...
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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Define fascism, then define islam. Then come back to me with how you can collide the two into such a word.




    What is the caliphate? Who would lead such a thing?


    It is a form of fascism.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What is the caliphate? Who would lead such a thing?


    It is a form of fascism.
    I know what a caliphate is basically a government representing the unity of the Muslim world under Islamic law.

    But no one can lead it hence why it will never happen - there is too many divisions amongst Muslims.


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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Somalia is a classic example of a failed state. It is a territory with numerous tribal and ethnic rivalries. It lacks a government except in name only (the rump "government" is incapable of exercising jurisdiction and is seen by a large share of the population as illegitimate and worse). The area lacks the most basic institutions on which a nation depends: legal, political, and economic. Failed states are not very conducive to peacekeeping. Peacekeeping requires some basic institutions, so that efforts contribute toward keeping peace rather than trying to address the far more complex issues and violence associated with anarchy.

    Now some of Somalia's pathologies (rivalries, animosities, hostilities) and anarchy are spilling into a larger slice of East Africa e.g., the Al-Shabaab terrorist organization responsible for the attack in Uganda is taking its fight to neighboring states. IMO, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Kenya should focus on securing their regions that border Somalia rather than becoming involved in what is a failed state. Uganda could play a constructive role in helping those neighboring states do so.

    Whether or not the international community needs to take and hold the Somali coastline due to rampant piracy is a separate issue. Personally, I believe a more robust naval deployment with escorts for ships would be preferable, as land forces would face instability and violence typical of failed states.
    Somalia wasn't always a failed state. Somalia's history is never one of centralized power and it never will be. A nation of nomads, traditional means was used to govern and police the populace. The problem is that it is now moving from tribal warfare to a religious one.

    All true but I personally take great amusement when Dijoubti or Eitrea get worried over the South. No more than they deserve for meddling in things not to be touched.
    Last edited by Laila; 07-13-10 at 02:52 PM.


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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I know what a caliphate is basically a government representing the unity of the Muslim world under Islamic law.

    But no one can lead it hence why it will never happen - there is too many divisions amongst Muslims.




    I agree with your assesment, however the goal is a theocratic fascist state is it not?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #19
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    Re: Uganda bombs kill 74, Islamists claim attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I agree with your assesment, however the goal is a theocratic fascist state is it not?
    Oh absolutely, it would most certainly have elements of a fascist state.


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