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Obama at odds with Petraeus doctrine on 'Islam'

TheNextEra said:
WRONG, and what you have just said is not what you and others have been typing.

I have no problem with what you have said above about RADICAL ISLAM. What I have a problem with is when people associate RADICAL ISLAM with ALL followers of Islam and blame the ENTIRE religion.

The only reason Christianity is brought up is to show that Christianity too was perverted by some and abused, much like people are doing with Islam now. It isn't the fault of the religion, but the fault of the people that abuse it.
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If you had Christians abusing the doctrine, and killing people in foreign lands based on that religious doctrine, then I am confident that Christians here would be speaking out against it. Where are the members of Islam doing that?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
First of all, you use a term from the liberal side of things in setting up your hypothetical, America is not "Imposing" its will on anyone. To take that stand is to say that we are somehow acting as some sort of Imperialist country, and we are not.

We are promoting freedom, and the ability of the people to chose, and standing with other free nations including Israel (which is the real crux of the animus against us)...


j-mac
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You are implying that everyone knows the Truth j-mac...

They dont. Specially not when they're led from birth to believe a certain way.

And how are hypotheticals a liberal term? Fricking hell. I don't prescribe to such dogmatism.
 
jallman said:
If you aren't aware of Catholic/Protestant conflict in Ireland, then you are sorely lacking enough education in this area to be having this discussion at all.
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Do you think its a stretch at all to say that 90% of all significant terrorist incidents in the last 50 years have been perpetrated by Muslim terrorists in the name of Islam?

Umm....Lets stay with the nationalist/separatist, not religious Irish conflict, wise one for a sec

Tell me....Has the IRA ever expressed a goal of uniting Ireland under the Church? Has the IRA ever claimed to act as an agent of the Church? Does the IRA even identify itself as Catholic? I don't see the term Catholic anywhere in IRA? Has the Church condoned the actions of the IRA?
 
ric27 said:
Do you think its a stretch at all to say that 90% of all significant terrorist incidents in the last 50 years have been perpetrated by Muslim terrorists in the name of Islam?
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Here, in the US, no. Worldwide, definitely.

EDIT: Sorry, my syntax is way off on that one. In the US, most of the terrorist violence of the past 50 years has not been muslim terrorism. Worldwide, it has been.

Hope that's more clear.

Umm....Lets stay with the nationalist/separatist, not religious Irish conflict, wise one for a sec
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Lets not because that isn't the issue here, wise one.
 
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j-mac said:
Really? What terrorist acts have they committed?


j-mac
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I don't know about you, but I believe that targeting and murdering doctors, bombing abortion clinics are acts of terrorism.
 
j-mac said:
If you had Christians abusing the doctrine, and killing people in foreign lands based on that religious doctrine, then I am confident that Christians here would be speaking out against it. Where are the members of Islam doing that?

j-mac
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You have "Christians" abusing the doctrine and killing people in this country based on their perverted religious doctrine.....
 
jallman said:
You didn't present any facts. You lifted a bunch of stuff out of a text file, slapped it in a post, and then strutted and preened like you accomplished something. Typical texmaster MO.
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LOL I gave you quotes from the Qur'an. Is that what you call "text file"? Might want to read it. Its called facts that go against your paethtic attempt to equate the two religions. See Jallman, thats how debate works. :)


You might have a point if that had actually happened. :shrug:
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Christians have no room to demean other faiths as being violent.
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What part of your own words did you miss? Once again you try to equate Christian voilence with Muslim voilence. This is getting a little too easy.

And I think you're a bipolar half-wit but our opinions of each other are not the topic here, are they?
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And we round it off with another personal attack.

Don't worry, I doubt you'll be warned.
 
jallman said:
LOLOLOLOLOL spare yourself. You aren't my responsibility.
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Dodge #1

Did you have a point in stating the obvious?
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Dodge #2

Maybe the Provisional Irish Republican Army I thought you were well versed in history and this topic....silly me for thinking you did.
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Actually I am. You obviosuly are not

Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) (aka, PIRA, "the provos," Óglaigh na hÉireann) (U.K. separatists)

Thanks for keeping true to form :)

I'm not going to sit here and throw gems before pigs.
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Wow you couldn't back up your claim. Color me shocked

Everyone in this thread knows your request is insincere and lacking anything remotely likened to honest discussion. If you aren't aware of Catholic/Protestant conflict in Ireland, then you are sorely lacking enough education in this area to be having this discussion at all. I don't believe for a minute that you are ignorant of the issue, though, which leads me to believe that your request is more of your typical mouth breathing antics.
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I understand. You can't back up your claim so you counter with it must be "insinere". That way you don't have to answer anything. Pretty sad. If you aren't going to debate, why are you in this thread at all?
 
texmaster said:
Dodge #1
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Lie #1 from tex.

Dodge #2
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Lie #2 from tex.

Actually I am. You obviosuly are not
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Actually, you're not.

Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) (aka, PIRA, "the provos," Óglaigh na hÉireann) (U.K. separatists)

Thanks for keeping true to form :)
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Clearly you can't tell the difference in the two so there's no point in moving any further here. Until you decide you don't want to be wrong anymore, there isn't anything I can do for you. :) :) :)


Wow you couldn't back up your claim. Color me shocked
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Wow, you still can't ****ing read. Color me...no, no I'm not shocked at all.


I understand.
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Clearly you don't.

You can't back up your claim so you counter with it must be "insinere".
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No the fact that you are insincere is what makes you insincere. It has nothing to do with my refusal to indulge your insincerity.

That way you don't have to answer anything.
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No, that way I don't have to waste time ****ing with a lost cause.

Pretty sad.
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Really? I find myself more than content when I wash my hands of your stupidity in a thread.

If you aren't going to debate, why are you in this thread at all?
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I am debating in this thread. I'm just refusing to debate with you. Everyone else gets that. Why can't you? :lol:
 
texmaster said:
LOL I gave you quotes from the Qur'an. Is that what you call "text file"? Might want to read it. Its called facts that go against your paethtic attempt to equate the two religions. See Jallman, thats how debate works. :)
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Oh well I didn't realize that since its the ****ing Quran, it can't be slapped into a text file. Thanks for clarifying that.

And no, debate does not work by slapping up some text and strutting an preening. It works by having some commentary go along with the text.

Anyway, I'm just gonna sit back and watch the tex show while you're still wound up. I know there's zero point in trying to discuss an issue with you because you LIKE being wrong. You just never get tired of it. And any attempt to educate you is only going to result in you going into a full on meltdown and fact avoidance.




What part of your own words did you miss? Once again you try to equate Christian voilence with Muslim voilence. This is getting a little too easy.
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Yes, tex. I am sure in your mind it's just sooooo simple. You wouldn't know a complex thought if it bit you in the ass.

And we round it off with another personal attack.
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Yeah, kinda threw it out there on purpose. Because sometimes you just have to tell an idiot how much of an idiot he is.

Don't worry, I doubt you'll be warned.
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And here's where you show that you never tire of being wrong. I got an infraction. I reported myself because unlike you, I can handle the consequences of reality. :lol:
 
disneydude said:
I don't know about you, but I believe that targeting and murdering doctors, bombing abortion clinics are acts of terrorism.
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Yep, bombing abortion clinics are terrorist acts and they are few and far between. I would consider membership in the fringe, extremist churches to be a red flag in that context. Only a few independent churches similar to the piece of **** Phelps' church would approve or support the activities. Furthermore, clinic bombers have a small circle of friends who would support and hide them, but they can not expect support from 99% of Christians.

On the other hand, while there have been Muslim clerics who have denounced terrorist acts, they have all hedged their bets. Depending on who is being attacked, they say it is ok. That opinion is supported by, rather than refuted by their source documents, the Koran. A further difference is support among the populace. As long as Islamic terrorists limit their attacks to "infidels", they have almost universal support and aid among the Islamic community.
 
disneydude said:
You have "Christians" abusing the doctrine and killing people in this country based on their perverted religious doctrine.....
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Which one looks more like a perverted religious doctrine? Be honest, dude

7991076273cathlic.jpg
 
Jetboogieman said:
Not a fair comparison you hack.
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Have you actually read the Bible? Have you read the entire New Testament to look for commands by God or Jesus to believers to commit acts of violence on non-believers?
 
SE102 said:
This is technically not true according to the data, most muslims approve of democracy and expanded rights, only about a third or so want sharia as the main source of law (whatever your opinion of it may be). Theres lots of data that contends against this statement.
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That is encouraging, but the proof will be if those people can accept a moral system different from their own.
 
ric27 said:
Have you actually read the Bible? Have you read the entire New Testament to look for commands by God or Jesus to believers to commit acts of violence on non-believers?
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Are you ****en kiding me?


You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:27)
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Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
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Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
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Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
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This seems to me to be a valid question worthy of response.

With all of the billions of peace loving Muslims out there. Where is the outrage and condemnation of the radical Islamic Fundamentalists doing all the suicide bombings and killings?

Shouldn't there be an element of the Muslim faith dominating the news citing their disgust and objection? Where are the leaders in that realm condemning the actions of the radical minority?

Really have no idea what the answer is. But the absence of any loud vocal persistent leadership in the Muslim realm attacking/demonizing the radical factions is at least puzzling and at most troubling....



.
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
Are you ****en kiding me?
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Um, that's from the Old Testament. Jesus is only in the New Testament.

See his quote:

Have you read the entire New Testament to look for commands by God or Jesus to believers to commit acts of violence on non-believers?
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Your knowledge of the Bible is truly amazing. :lamo
 
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jallman said:
:roll::roll::roll:
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It is true though Jall. Ryn was asked to provide examples from the New Testament which he did not. I really hate to say it, but Ric got him there.

However, it's not good enough for Christains to subjectively use the bible, and ommit parts when it suits them. I say that the old testament segments stand as evidence, it's part of the Christains holy book, and since they use one of the quotes so vehemiantly to oppose homosexuals, you can't just pick and choose whatever parts of the bible you want to get away from the fact that Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam all permits the killing of unbelievers within the context of the book.
 
Jetboogieman said:
It is true though Jall. Ryn was asked to provide examples from the New Testament which he did not. I really hate to say it, but Ric got him there.
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Paying attention Jallman? :D

However, it's not good enough for Christains to subjectively use the bible, and ommit parts when it suits them. I say that the old testament segments stand as evidence, it's part of the Christains holy book, and since they use one of the quotes so vehemiantly to oppose homosexuals, you can't just pick and choose whatever parts of the bible you want to get away from the fact that Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam all permits the killing of unbelievers within the context of the book.
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No one is denying there aren't voilent passages in the Bible. What we object to is equating Christianity on the same level of voilence in act and teaching with Chrristianity.
 
texmaster said:
No one is denying there aren't voilent passages in the Bible. What we object to is equating Christianity on the same level of voilence in act and teaching with Chrristianity.
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Islam and the Quran are simply a factor in the evil that is radical islam, not the 100% prevailing factor. You have to also take into account, historical events, geo-political circumstance and economic circumstance. Islam is simply a tool used to propogate terror.

The reason I argue about this so strongly, is I've known many muslims in my life, and not met a single one who wanted to kill Americans, who wanted to cause terror. They may have disagreed with many American policies but never felt that way. I am just really scared of some peoples mentality towards muslims, to see them all as hostile terrorists, which simply IS. NOT. TRUE.
 
Cole said:
This seems to me to be a valid question worthy of response.

With all of the billions of peace loving Muslims out there. Where is the outrage and condemnation of the radical Islamic Fundamentalists doing all the suicide bombings and killings?

Shouldn't there be an element of the Muslim faith dominating the news citing their disgust and objection? Where are the leaders in that realm condemning the actions of the radical minority?

Really have no idea what the answer is. But the absence of any loud vocal persistent leadership in the Muslim realm attacking/demonizing the radical factions is at least puzzling and at most troubling....



.
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Cole - Not all Muslims are terrorists. But when the many allow the few to define them by commission or omission, remain silent and do not police their own - well, they lose the right to bitch.
 
Jetboogieman said:
It is true though Jall. Ryn was asked to provide examples from the New Testament which he did not. I really hate to say it, but Ric got him there.

However, it's not good enough for Christains to subjectively use the bible, and ommit parts when it suits them. I say that the old testament segments stand as evidence, it's part of the Christains holy book, and since they use one of the quotes so vehemiantly to oppose homosexuals, you can't just pick and choose whatever parts of the bible you want to get away from the fact that Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam all permits the killing of unbelievers within the context of the book.
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My response was basically to the idea that anyone could be more clueless about the Bible than the poster I was responding to. Lifting a bunch of text and pasting it in a post with no commentary just doesn't impress me.
 
jallman said:
Lie #1 from tex.
Lie #2 from tex.
Actually, you're not.
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Truth hurts yes I know. Playtime over yet? Let's see.

Clearly you can't tell the difference in the two so there's no point in moving any further here. Until you decide you don't want to be wrong anymore, there isn't anything I can do for you.
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Classic Jallman. When he's proven laughably wrong, he runs away from his argument. I do love predictabliity but it does take some of the fun out of it. But just a little :D

Wow, you still can't ****ing read. Color me...no, no I'm not shocked at all.
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LOL I asked you to back up your point and your response was I'm not going to sit here and throw gems before pigs.

This is what is called a cop out. Nice job

No the fact that you are insincere is what makes you insincere. It has nothing to do with my refusal to indulge your insincerity.
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Can you get any more cowardly? I asked you to back up your claim and you run away as usual claiming I'm not "sincere" so you don't have to answer. Does your mother know you're on her computer?

No, that way I don't have to waste time ****ing with a lost cause.
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Ah yes. More classic Jallman. "Uh I don't have to debate you becuase you're a poopy head!"

LOL Seriosuly dude. If you aren't going to debate facts, why are you continuing to post? Is your hatred of me that out of control you just can't help yourself?

Really? I find myself more than content when I wash my hands of your stupidity in a thread.
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Yep. Still pretty sad dude.

I am debating in this thread. I'm just refusing to debate with you. Everyone else gets that. Why can't you? :lol:
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Because you can't debate me in this area. I understand. Your inability to distinguish Old and New Testament as Jet pointed out spoke volumes. You simply aren't versed in this area. Perhaps we can find another thread to your liking
 
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