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Obama at odds with Petraeus doctrine on 'Islam'

SE102 said:
Thats a new one. Weird how my class on islam and all demographic work all say something completely different.
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Then you aren't being taught about what the Qur'an actually says. Has your class ever looked at religious freedom in Muslim dominated countries? How about women's rights?

Didn't think so.
 
Weird how almost all muslim women consider islam their path to freedom, Islam was founded in liberation of women, and those few countries your talking about only compose a fraction of the muslim world. You cant take parts of the qu'ran out of context and twist them into your world view to demonise a religion of 1.3 billion people but something tells me youll insult them so badly with your ignorance you just might make good people turn into terrorists and want to chop your head off with a machete.
 
Not that I defend those actions. But really, it pisses people off.
 
Just curious SE102 how many Muslim countries have you been to. I have been to more than a couple and I can say that I don't know where you get that almost all Muslim women think Islam is their path to freedom. And a lot of the ones who do have been pretty much brainwashed into believing what ever they are told. Now I know that this is not true for some Muslim counties but to sit there and pretend that mistreatment of women is not a huge problem in lots of Muslim run areas is putting your head in the sand. Do you think the women who had their genitals mutilated so they wouldn't enjoy sex, or the women who were stoned to death for being raped, or the women who are forced to walk in front of their husbands livestock to protect them from landmines, or the women who are forbidden from going to school think that Islam is their path to freedom. While I know that this is not the way Islam started out but it is what it is becoming in more and more areas. Unlike you I prefer to deal with the way really things are not how we wish they were. And in a lot of Muslim run countries women are second or third class citizens.
 
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SE102 said:
Weird how almost all muslim women consider islam their path to freedom, Islam was founded in liberation of women,
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Wow such delightful fantasy. Where did you receive such false information?

and those few countries your talking about only compose a fraction of the muslim world. You cant take parts of the qu'ran out of context and twist them into your world view to demonise a religion of 1.3 billion people but something tells me youll insult them so badly with your ignorance you just might make good people turn into terrorists and want to chop your head off with a machete.
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How many countries dominated by Islam have religous freedom? How many? I can only think of one.

I love the taken out of context line. Almost always a sure sign of a defeated opponent.
 
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braindrain said:
Just curious SE102 how many Muslim countries have you been to. I have been to more than a couple and I can say that I dont know where you get that almost all Muslim women think Islam is their path to freedom. And most of the ones who do have been pretty much brainwashed into beliveing what ever they are told. Now I know that this is not true for a lot of Muslim counties but to sit there and pretend that mistreatment of women is not a huge problem in lots of Muslim run areas is putting your head in the sand.
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Oh it certainly is true in places such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. I only know that only a fraction of muslim women feel themselves opressed. Also women freely move from those countries to ours and STILL wear their garb and burqas, freely. Some women see the burqa as a mask of anonymity and some sort of protection... hrrm thats not the right word. But something of the sort.

Sure islam has problems. Most americans seem to just inflame normal muslims. They are pretty tolerant considering what theyve been through. You know... centuries of colonialism and whatnot. Dont really know. I do know that alot of people around here don't seem to know much about it. Im reading some books on islam now. :shakes fist: daggumn books!
 
Wow such delightful fantasy. Where did you receive such false information?
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An evil college class on the history of islam.

I lvoe the taken out of context line. Almost always a sure sign of a defeated opponent.
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Sizing up my opponent I can tell he doesn't know what he's talking about. I may decide to engage you later when we've studied some quranic verse in class, weve been through a couple.
 
SE102 said:
An evil college class on the history of islam.
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Can you name anything that supports that fantasy? I mean I've heard some whoppers about Islam but that one takes the cake.

Sizing up my opponent I can tell he doesn't know what he's talking about. I may decide to engage you later when we've studied some quranic verse in class, weve been through a couple.
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Anytime you wish to debate Islam, I'm ready to bury you :)
 
Well as for the fantasy...

Take womens conditions before and after Muhammad's movement, and particularly the conditions of the women who converted.

As for fighting you on islam. Well... My time in my class on Islam has certianly taught me enough that I know youre wrong and I never post anything that I dont know what Im talking about on (or I try not to, it creates problems). But I defer so it wont turn into a pooping fest. Some other time rlly.
 
texmaster said:
How many countries dominated by Islam have religous freedom? How many? I can only think of one.
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Burkina Faso
Gambia
Guinea
Mali
Senegal
Chad
Djibouti
Indonesia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Northern Cyprus
Tajikstan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Albania
Azerbaijan
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Kosovo
Turkey
Algeria
Bangladesh
Egypt
Iraq
Kuwait
Libya
Malaysia
Maldives
Morocco
Qatar
Tunisia
United Arab Emirates
 
SE102 said:
Oh it certainly is true in places such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. I only know that only a fraction of muslim women feel themselves opressed. Also women freely move from those countries to ours and STILL wear their garb and burqas, freely. Some women see the burqa as a mask of anonymity and some sort of protection... hrrm thats not the right word. But something of the sort.

Sure islam has problems. Most americans seem to just inflame normal muslims. They are pretty tolerant considering what theyve been through. You know... centuries of colonialism and whatnot. Dont really know. I do know that alot of people around here don't seem to know much about it. Im reading some books on islam now. :shakes fist: daggumn books!
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I hate to tell u this but it is that way in way more counties than those two. Go to Iraq Yeman Astan parts of the Phillippines Bangladesh parts of maylasia and Indonesia many places in Africa and others. What's even worse is u have some Muslims doing that same behavior in nonmuslim areas such as here in the US and Canada. And unlike u my knowledge dosent come only from books but being over thier and seeing it.
 
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This whole story is positively ridiculous. There is only a benefit in separating, with our rhetoric, the extremist bungholes that hijack a beautiful faith from their peaceful counterparts. This idea that we are at war with all of Islam is dangerous an moronic. History shows that a "war with Islam" bankrupts nations, builds enmity between regions, and results in Christians running forth from the holy land with their asses handed to them.
 
What is it with non stories like this making the news?


But to prove Se point


Sharia law: A brief introduction

Perhaps the two greatest original founders of Sharia law were Malik ibn Anas and Ibn al-Shaf'i. Anas established the Maliki school of jurisprudence. Al-Shaf'i was one of Anas' students; he disagreed with his teacher about the reliability of the hadith. He felt that it was necessary to trace each hadith from the time of Muhammad through its chain of devout Muslims. This concern led to Islamic scholars considering "... which hadith were true and which were not." Needless to say this led to conflicts among scholars as to the proper application of Sharia law.

Ibn al-Shafi'i promoted the use of additional sources for Shari'a law:
bullet The technique of "... reasoning by analogy in order to develop new laws from existing laws." As the culture evolves, new types of problems emerge that need to be dealt with. Pre-implantation Genetic Diagnosis (PGD) used to prevent the development of a severely defective human embryo is one example.
bullet The technique of accepting the consensus of a Muslim community. The reasoning is that Allah would not allow an entire community to be in error on a basic Islamic principle.

There are four main schools of Sharia law:
bullet Hanbali: This is the most conservative school of Shari'a. It is used in Saudi Arabia and some states in Northern Nigeria.
bullet Hanifi: This is the most liberal school, and is relatively open to modern ideas.
bullet Maliki: This is based on the practices of the people of Medina during Muhammad's lifetime.
bullet Shafi'i: This is a conservative school that emphasizes on the opinions of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad.

What applies within one school of Sharia law does not necessarily apply in the other schools. For example, the Maliki Law School accepts evidence of pregnancy as proof that an unmarried woman has either committed adultery or been raped. The other schools "... do not recognize evidence of pregnancy as proof of Zina [Adultery]." 3
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And also a little bit of reading about Sharia Law

A woman who had been convicted of Adultery would be wiped along with the man thought at least its not stoning like in the Christan- Judaic religion, and that is only the woman as well..

There are three type of Sharia Law which are Ultra conservative( Iran) Conservative( Turkey) and Liberal (Pakistan, and western worlds)

The ultra conservative are the ones that are thrashing the religious texts of many different religious Text to meat their agenda which is usually not good.

And on woman rights actually read somethings before make stupid claims.
Woman Rights in Islam which we hardly got in the Christan -Judaic religion. The Qur'an saw people as equals.

For more reading
Kuwaiti women gain right to vote," Muslim Public Affairs Council, 2005-MAY-24, news release.
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Let see the difference in Christianity, and Islam which their are none

the beliefs between Christianity, and Islam
I love how Islam views babies as being born pure. While the Christan beliefs say they have an sin nature.
 
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texmaster said:
Wow such delightful fantasy. Where did you receive such false information?
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Under Prophet Mohammed's teaching, Muslim women were granted the right to own, inherit and dispose of their own property, obtain an education women were amongst the first followers and teachers of Islam.
"Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."

But if you want to believe all Muslim women are somehow beaten daily and are an oppressed, weak demographic your problem :shrug:

Oh and on topic, I see no problem with what Obama is trying to do.
US is not at war with Islam no matter how much people wish it was.
 
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braindrain said:
I hate to tell u this but it is that way in way more counties than those two. Go to Iraq Yeman Astan parts of the Phillippines Bangladesh parts of maylasia and Indonesia many places in Africa and others. What's even worse is u have some Muslims doing that same behavior in nonmuslim areas such as here in the US and Canada. And unlike u my knowledge dosent come only from books but being over thier and seeing it.
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Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan were nice to their women :shrug:

So were women being beaten in the street or what?
 
Psst. Christianity has many biblical passages commanding them to spread Christianity.
 
Deuce said:
Psst. Christianity has many biblical passages commanding them to spread Christianity.
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Christianity, primarily because of the reformation, encourages a critical examination of scriptures and religious precepts. Islam on the other hand, in both branches, is completely the opposite and kills anyone who dares to take a different look at things.
 
ric27 said:
Christianity, primarily because of the reformation, encourages a critical examination of scriptures and religious precepts. Islam on the other hand, in both branches, is completely the opposite and kills anyone who dares to take a different look at things.
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That's interesting considering I know many Muslims and their leaders at their Mosque that have no problem with critical examinations of their religion and they haven't threatened to kill me for it.

I think your hatred for Muslims is quite clear
 
Deuce said:
Psst. Christianity has many biblical passages commanding them to spread Christianity.
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Jesus never said to convert or kill though. We are to spread our faith through love and living by Jesus' example. Jesus never killed anyone for not believing in Him. Regardless, what does Christianity have to do with any of this?
 
digsbe said:
Jesus never said to convert or kill though. We are to spread our faith through love and living by Jesus' example. Jesus never killed anyone for not believing in Him. Regardless, what does Christianity have to do with any of this?
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Doesn't matter what the message is suppose to be about.

See Spanish Inquisition.
 
SE102 said:
Well as for the fantasy...

Take womens conditions before and after Muhammad's movement, and particularly the conditions of the women who converted.
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LOL Now this sounds familiar. So its now almost 1500 years later and how are women treated today in Islamic countries? How many dominant Islamic countries grant women equal rights?

Lets read about the tolorant world of Islam and how it respects women:

Women are inferior to men, and must be ruled by them. "Men have authpority over women because God has made the one superior to the other: Qur'an 4:34

Your women are a tilth (that means to use as the man wants) for you to cultivate so go to your tilth as ye will 2:223

Get two witnesses out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose for witnesses so that if one of the errs, the other can remind her 2:282

If he fear that ye shall not be able to deal justily with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or fourl but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with them, then only one, or a captive that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable to prevent you from doing injustice 4:3

Ahhah thus directs you as regards your children's inheritance: to the male, a portion equal to that of two females 4:11

Good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from who ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart and scourge them 4:34


Oh yes, a becon to women everywhere :D And I've just scratched the surface.


As for fighting you on islam.
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Not fighting, debating. You have been reading the Qur'an :D

Well... My time in my class on Islam has certianly taught me enough that I know youre wrong and I never post anything that I dont know what Im talking about on (or I try not to, it creates problems). But I defer so it wont turn into a pooping fest. Some other time rlly.
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Yes its quite easy to declare victory without presenting evidence to support yourself and if thats the game you wish to play you are welcome to it :)
 
digsbe said:
Jesus never said to convert or kill though. We are to spread our faith through love and living by Jesus' example. Jesus never killed anyone for not believing in Him. Regardless, what does Christianity have to do with any of this?
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Classic argument tactic of the left on this matter. They try and equate Christianity to Islam. It never works but they will try and try :)
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
What is it with non stories like this making the news?


But to prove Se point


Sharia law: A brief introduction



And also a little bit of reading about Sharia Law

A woman who had been convicted of Adultery would be wiped along with the man thought at least its not stoning like in the Christan- Judaic religion, and that is only the woman as well..

There are three type of Sharia Law which are Ultra conservative( Iran) Conservative( Turkey) and Liberal (Pakistan, and western worlds)

The ultra conservative are the ones that are thrashing the religious texts of many different religious Text to meat their agenda which is usually not good.

And on woman rights actually read somethings before make stupid claims.
Woman Rights in Islam which we hardly got in the Christan -Judaic religion. The Qur'an saw people as equals.

For more reading

Let see the difference in Christianity, and Islam which their are none

the beliefs between Christianity, and Islam
I love how Islam views babies as being born pure. While the Christan beliefs say they have an sin nature.
Click to expand...

LOL Any time you want to compare freedom and equality between Christian and Muslim dominated countries you just let me know mmkay? :lamo
 
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