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Thread: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Nothing! I get it. You obviously dont or you would drop this "only Arizona id is valid" Bull****.
    If he accepts 4, it kills his whole stance.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    If he accepts 4, it kills his whole stance.
    All I can say was you were right.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Nothing in the first part of that sentence invalidates the second part.

    Name one state driver's license that doesn't put your address on it.

    Go ahead.
    The first half doesn't invalidate the second half, no. It qualifies the second half. That's what the word IF does in a sentence like this. Maybe grammar is the problem you're having? I'll break it down in pseudo-programming language form.

    IF, THEN.

    If:
    the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance

    THEN:
    any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

    The use of the word IF implies that the qualification might not always be met. If the intent was to make any and all government-issued ID's meet the requirements, why is that first half of the sentence even there? It would be shorter and simpler just to write this:
    4) Any federal, state, or local issued government identification.
    Furthermore, why single out 1), 2), and 3)? If the intention was to have any and all government ID's meet the requirements, they could have just said that all by itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    And before you try wiggling again with Minnesota, here are the requirements for obtaining a driver's license or state ID

    * An application for a drivers license (must be signed by one of the parents or legal guardians)
    * Proper identification (the list of approved documents can be found in the Minnesota Driver handbook)
    * A Social Security number

    * Proper forms from driver education and/or driver training courses

    So yes Minnesota would be VALID. Sigh. This is just sad you are trying to dodge this.

    https://driversed.com/dmv/minnesota-apply-dl.aspx
    Again with the straw man. This only holds up if you ignore literally everything I wrote in between page 2 and here.

    I asked about Minnesota as an example, as I'd not yet looked into it. As it turns out, a Minnesota license will satisfy the officer. A license from New Mexico, Utah, Washington, or Illinois does not require proof of legal status. Why, then, would Arizona want to accept it as proof of such?

    You scoffed at the Yahoo News link, but the quote was from Lyle Mann, director of the Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board. Is he wrong?
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-11-10 at 07:58 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    If he accepts 4, it kills his whole stance.
    I accept 4, MrV, but have a different interpretation of what it means. Perhaps YOU can explain why the first half of the sentence is there and why it starts with the word IF?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Addendum: Turns out Utah recently changed their Driver's license regulations, so once the existing old licenses expire, Utah will no longer fall under this category because as of Jan. 1 of this year, the full-fledged Driver's License requires proof of legal status, and there's a "Driving Privilege Card" for those who can't show that proof.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    I never leave the house without my ID.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I never leave the house without my ID.
    I do every time I go jogging. However, I am unlikely to jog to Arizona as that would take quite a bit of time.

    edit: Although I admit I go jogging way less than I should.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I accept 4, MrV, but have a different interpretation of what it means. Perhaps YOU can explain why the first half of the sentence is there and why it starts with the word IF?
    I don't play semantic games with pauid forum hacks that want to try and redefine the word IF just to score some crazy point that proves them right IF the WORD means THIS and not THAT.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I do every time I go jogging. However, I am unlikely to jog to Arizona as that would take quite a bit of time.

    edit: Although I admit I go jogging way less than I should.
    Deuce, having an ID provides a layer separating going home and reasonable suspicion in some cases. You can also draw a relationship between several hundred felony arrests made and the number of those carrying any form of ID.

    Almost none of them had ID.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Deuce, having an ID provides a layer separating going home and reasonable suspicion in some cases. You can also draw a relationship between several hundred felony arrests made and the number of those carrying any form of ID.

    Almost none of them had ID.
    There are no warrants out for my arrest and I haven't committed any crimes. I shouldn't have to carry ID, is what I'm saying. There's a difference between "Hey, I think you might be the guy who robbed the bank yesterday" and "Hey, I think you might be here illegally." The first is a specific crime with a specific description of the suspect. The second is whatever the officer happens to think at that particular moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I don't play semantic games with pauid forum hacks that want to try and redefine the word IF just to score some crazy point that proves them right IF the WORD means THIS and not THAT.
    Errr, I'm not redefining the word if. "If" implies some sort of condition. That's what "if" means. You and Tex are the ones who are acting like it doesn't mean anything at all. And what's this new deal about me being paid to surf forums? I suggest you drop that nonsense, it just makes you sound paranoid.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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