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Thread: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I am soooo sick and tired of this "racial profiling argument." It's nothing more than a red herring designed to distract us from the main issue. It's why we search little old ladies' shoes at the airports. If one is to enforce immigration laws in any way, shape or form, we're going to have to profile....as we do in allll law enforcement activities. Ridiculous.

    I was hoping he'd go on to say they were temporarily dropping the lawsuit. The Administration looks like total idiots and against the very principles they're charged to support. This is a huge $$ burden on Arizona -- defending against, what I think, is a frivilous lawsuit.

    The Administration looks like total idiots
    very likely because that is exactly what they are.
    With regards to the costs, unfortunately whoever wins, the Taxpayer loses.
    But if Az wins will they be able to recover their costs from the Federal administration?

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Both of those appear to be from the section dealing with impounding a vehicle, not detaining a person. Which page did they come from?

    edit: Although this may all be moot, because the bill seems to have been amended? We might both be looking at an outdated version.

    EDIT AGAIN:
    Here's what we SHOULD be looking at, Tex.

    http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF

    Edit Yet Again:
    Yeah, Tex, that language you're referring to is definitely in the impounding a vehicle section, not the detainment section.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-11-10 at 05:35 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So you admit that race will be a factor in determining the "reasonable suspicion" of being illegal? Despite the law supposedly ruling that out?
    Have you looked at the vids of people crossing into the US from Mexico illegally? How would you describe them?
    age, dress, height, weight, hair color, eye color
    would then not describe the color of the skin also, hence race or ethnicity .

    Are you saying that anytime a murder suspect, bank robber, rapist is described which included race/ethnicity would be racial profiling?
    To use only race/ethnicity would be racial profling, imo. To include other descriptions and race is not. If you think it is then, I guess the best LE could say is they are human of a certain height,weight,etc.

    Lets get serious. IMO, racial profiling is the pro illegal stance to hender LE in stopping the influx of illegals.
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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So you admit that race will be a factor in determining the "reasonable suspicion" of being illegal? Despite the law supposedly ruling that out?
    What are you babbling about? Does Arizona have a problem with Polish, Russian or European Illegal Immigration or with Latino Illegals?

    In Dueces Progressive Lefty mind, it doesn't matter that pretty much every illegal in Az is... Hispanic, no no, if the police ask more non-whites then whites it's RACIAL PROFILING MAN!!!

    I swear, the term Common Sense means nothing to you does it?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Both of those appear to be from the section dealing with impounding a vehicle, not detaining a person. Which page did they come from?

    edit: Although this may all be moot, because the bill seems to have been amended? We might both be looking at an outdated version.

    EDIT AGAIN:
    Here's what we SHOULD be looking at, Tex.

    http://www.azleg.gov/alispdfs/council/SB1070-HB2162.PDF

    Edit Yet Again:
    Yeah, Tex, that language you're referring to is definitely in the impounding a vehicle section, not the detainment section.
    Read the page Deuce.

    IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED
    44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL
    45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.


    Thats it. Its over. Its any government issued ID. Lets stop the pretence ok? Its not just an Arizona ID.
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-11-10 at 06:02 PM.
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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Read the page Deuce.

    ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL
    45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.


    Thats it. Its over. Its any government issued ID. Lets stop the pretence ok? Its not just an Arizona ID.
    Tex, Duece is just posting as his talking points tell him to, it's a gig that pays him to post, not think for himself.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    FOXNews.com - Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    So they realize they'll probably lose the first suit and are laying the groundwork for the 2nd.

    I was hoping this would happen as I believe it is a socially stronger case than a federal technicality and would reflect better to the constituents.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Read the page Deuce.

    IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED
    44 STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL
    45 GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.


    Thats it. Its over. Its any government issued ID. Lets stop the pretence ok? Its not just an Arizona ID.
    No, it's not any government issued ID. Did you miss the word "IF" at the start? Some ID's do not require proof of citizenship for issuance. Those ID's are not going to get you out of detainment. This includes the driver's licenses issued by, if I remember right, eleven states.

    edit: ten?

    edit2: seems that situation may have changed. investigating further. Utah and New Mexico seem to not require citizenship proof. Others in the ten may have changed recently.

    edit3: http://www.newmexicocivilrightslaw.c...migration-law/
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-11-10 at 06:42 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, it's not any government issued ID. Did you miss the word "IF" at the start? Some ID's do not require proof of citizenship for issuance. Those ID's are not going to get you out of detainment. This includes the driver's licenses issued by, if I remember right, eleven states.
    What in hell are you talking about? The word IF was referring to IF proof of legal residence is required then State or local government issued identification is required.

    How can you possibly miss this? Its bordering on intentional now.

    Either show us in the law where it says only an Arizona ID stops the probing for legal residence or drop the rediculus claim you made.
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-11-10 at 06:41 PM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What in hell are you talking about? The word IF was referring to IF proof of legal residence is required then State or local government issued identification is required.

    How can you possibly miss this? Its bordering on intentional now.

    Either show us in the law where it says only an Arizona ID stops the probing for legal residence or drop the rediculus claim you made.
    There's nothing else to say other than that you're misinterpreting what you're reading. That statement comes from a list of four types of documents that will stop the process.
    1) AZ Driver's License
    2) AZ Non-operators permit
    3) Tribal something or other
    4) What you quoted.

    If a particular document requires proof of citizenship for issuance, that document will be accepted under this AZ law. If not, the document does not fall under that 4th item.

    So I'm going to ask YOU to drop YOUR ridiculous claim.

    A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN
    ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON
    PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
    2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
    3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
    IDENTIFICATION.
    4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED
    STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL
    GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
    Edit again: Worthy of consideration: If any government ID would satisfy, why bother breaking it down into four types?
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-11-10 at 06:56 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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