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Thread: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Here's what the Department of Justice has to say about racial profiling:

    There are circumstances in which law enforcement activities relating to particular identified criminal incidents, schemes or enterprises may involve consideration of personal identifying characteristics of potential suspects, including age, sex, ethnicity or race. Common sense dictates that when a victim describes the assailant as being of a particular race, authorities may properly limit their search for suspects to persons of that race. Similarly, in conducting an ongoing investigation into a specific criminal organization whose membership has been identified as being overwhelmingly of one ethnicity, law enforcement should not be expected to disregard such facts in pursuing investigative leads into the organization's activities.
    Civil Rights Division Home Page

    I'm glad this came up. I hadn't researched it before. I wonder how the Obama Administration expects to win their suit in light of the above information....?

    @ Deuce -- how come you didn't answer my question?
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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Here's what the Department of Justice has to say about racial profiling:

    Civil Rights Division Home Page

    I'm glad this came up. I hadn't researched it before. I wonder how the Obama Administration expects to win their suit in light of the above information....?

    @ Deuce -- how come you didn't answer my question?
    You should ask ICE about that. I'm not in law enforcement. If I had to guess, I'd say they probably work off of people with fake/stolen SSNs, or are unable to provide a SSN, lack a driver's license/other form of ID, don't file a tax return despite appearing to have income, or whatever.

    All I know is the AZ law specifically says that race can't be the sole determinant for "reasonable suspcion" and the training videos they're giving to their officers regarding the law say racial profiling is not ok. Should AZ not follow their own rules?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You missed an important word. I bolded for you.
    Yup I did. My apologies.

    But are you against deportation of illegals?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    The Feds are going to file their bogus "racial profiling" suit when they have a statistical sample showing that the cops are asking proportionately more Hispanics for their ID than white people.

    Which, duh, will be shown by the first week, since the Invaders are predominately Hispanic.

    What else would expect from a Justice Department run by racists?

    Certainly not honesty.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Yup I did. My apologies.

    But are you against deportation of illegals?
    No. Not at all. They break the law, law says send 'em home.
    My personal gripe with the AZ law is the strong possibility of legal residents/citizens being detained because they failed to carry their birth certificate or passport with them. Say I'm jaywalking, and a cop stops me and gives me a ticket. Lawful contact. Then he suspects I'm not a citizen, let's say because I have an accent or I mention that I was born in somewhereElseIstan. I'm a legal citizen and have been all my life, but now he has to detain me until my citizenship can be verified. Even my driver's license wont necessarily clear me. (the AZ law only says that AZ licenses are considered valid evidence of legal status, if I remember right) Or maybe say I don't have my wallet on me, because I was just out for a stroll.

    Legal citizens detained for not having proper paperwork on them. It bothers me. Trading liberty for security and all that.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-11-10 at 04:48 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No. Not at all. They break the law, law says send 'em home.
    My personal gripe with the AZ law is the strong possibility of legal residents/citizens being detained because they failed to carry their birth certificate or passport with them. Say I'm jaywalking, and a cop stops me and gives me a ticket. Lawful contact. Then he suspects I'm not a citizen, let's say because I have an accent or I mention that I was born in somewhereElseIstan. I'm a legal citizen and have been all my life, but now he has to detain me until my citizenship can be verified. Even my driver's license wont necessarily clear me. (the AZ law only says that AZ licenses are considered valid evidence of legal status, if I remember right) Or maybe say I don't have my wallet on me, because I was just out for a stroll.

    Legal citizens detained for not having proper paperwork on them. It bothers me. Trading liberty for security and all that.
    If you have valid ID he can't go anywhere beyond that. Driver's license is considered valid. He can't explore beyond that. Thats also part of the law.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    If you have valid ID he can't go anywhere beyond that. Driver's license is considered valid. He can't explore beyond that. Thats also part of the law.
    As I understand it, an Arizona driver's license ends the investigation. How about a Minnesota license?

    Edit: Read the bill again. If the ID I'm showing him requires proof of citizenship, then it is considered good enough. However, not all states require citizenship to be proven to get a driver's license, are the officers going to memorize the list? How about other types of ID? Chances are the officer wont immediately know. Also, what if I don't have my wallet on me? Walking down the street does not require such a thing.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-11-10 at 04:54 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    As I understand it, an Arizona driver's license ends the investigation. How about a Minnesota license?
    I'm sure its any state driver's license.

    Under SB1070, however, Arizona police will have the right to stop anyone on "reasonable suspicion" that they may be an illegal immigrant and can arrest them if they are not carrying a valid driver's license or identity papers.

    Arizona Illegal-Immigrant Law Draws Strong Opposition - TIME
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    I'm sure its any state driver's license.

    Under SB1070, however, Arizona police will have the right to stop anyone on "reasonable suspicion" that they may be an illegal immigrant and can arrest them if they are not carrying a valid driver's license or identity papers.

    Arizona Illegal-Immigrant Law Draws Strong Opposition - TIME
    Nope! (see edit)

    Get-out-of-detainment cards:
    1. A valid Arizona driver license.
    2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
    3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
    4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

    Some driver's licenses aren't covered, and even the ones that are covered are dependent upon the officer's memory of whether that particular form of ID requires proof of legal presence.

    Switching "reasonable suspicion" to "probable cause" and "lawful contact" to "lawful detainment" would end any issue I have with the law. The federal vs. state jurisdiction pissing match is above my pay grade and outside of anything I'm interested in.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Holder Floats Possibility of Racial Profiling Suit Against Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Nope! (see edit)

    Get-out-of-detainment cards:
    1. A valid Arizona driver license.
    2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
    3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
    4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

    Some driver's licenses aren't covered, and even the ones that are covered are dependent upon the officer's memory of whether that particular form of ID requires proof of legal presence.

    Switching "reasonable suspicion" to "probable cause" and "lawful contact" to "lawful detainment" would end any issue I have with the law. The federal vs. state jurisdiction pissing match is above my pay grade and outside of anything I'm interested in.
    Actually after reading the actual law you are incorrect.

    1. The person's driving privilege is canceled, suspended or revoked
    5 for any reason or the person has not ever been issued a driver license or
    6 permit by this state and the person does not produce evidence of ever having
    7 a driver license or permit issued by another jurisdiction.l


    So clearly the driver's license can be from any state. It would have been rediculus to limit to to Az driver's licenses only.

    and again,

    1. The peace officer determines that the vehicle is currently
    22 registered and that the driver or the vehicle is in compliance with the
    23 financial responsibility requirements of chapter 9, article 4 of this title.
    24 2. The spouse of the driver is with the driver at the time of the
    25 arrest.
    26 3. The peace officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the spouse
    27 of the driver:
    28 (a) Has a valid driver license.


    And again no mention of limiting it to Arizona only.

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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