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Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

Switching gears for a sec...

Do any of you think "big business" is in favor of illegal workers?
 
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I think big FARM business is in favor of illegals. "Big Business," as in the definition I personally would ascribe to it, really shouldn't favor them because, in most cases, it would make no difference. They have labor contracts that spell out what workers get paid, so there'd be no advantage there. And what advantage would they have to hire non-English-speaking workers?

Entrepreneurs and small businesses probably favor them because they can pay them less. And, better yet, can pay them off the books so they avoid payroll taxes. Just figuring FICA, they'd save, what? 7% of their salary? No health insurance, no unemployment taxes. But only small businesses can get away with that. Big businesses would never take that risk, even if they weren't hog-tied by union contracts.
 
MaggieD said:
I think big FARM business is in favor of illegals. "Big Business," as in the definition I personally would ascribe to it, really shouldn't favor them because, in most cases, it would make no difference. They have labor contracts that spell out what workers get paid, so there'd be no advantage there. And what advantage would they have to hire non-English-speaking workers?

Entrepreneurs and small businesses probably favor them because they can pay them less. And, better yet, can pay them off the books so they avoid payroll taxes. Just figuring FICA, they'd save, what? 7% of their salary? No health insurance, no unemployment taxes. But only small businesses can get away with that. Big businesses would never take that risk, even if they weren't hog-tied by union contracts.
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Exactly. Large companies avoid the complexities of illegal workers like the plague because big corporations have the cash to interest government investigators and the little businesses don't.

Big business is NOT in favor of illegal workers. Its small business that is in favor of it
 
ric27 said:
Exactly. Large companies avoid the complexities of illegal workers like the plague because big corporations have the cash to interest government investigators and the little businesses don't.
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Excellent point.
 
Its a way of using the American public's antipathy towards large Corps/big business. The media is mostly responsible in using this cheap arsed media ploy to create a sense of social conflict

The most offending companies are small and privately owned. Local construction contractors come to mind.
 
I agree. A red herring designed to distract us from the real problem. Your construction contractor example is perfect. As are landscape contractors...independently-owned chain hotels/motels...restaurants...maid services, and many more.

And this labor savings is not enjoyed by the consumer. It's put right into the business owner's pocket.
 
Dezaad said:
Deportation is an expensive and ineffective strategy. It is not even worth doing until the demand for their labor is dealt with. Once the demand for their labor is reduced to virtually nothing, you can get an idea of how large the remaining problem will be, and thereby determine how many resources to direct at it.

Here is what I predict, if Obama does what is necessary to dry up the demand: There will be a lot more poor, desperate Mexicans. Some of these people will become involved in the violent supply of drugs across the border. However, on the plus side, illegal immigration for other purposes will come to a virtual halt. Overall, illegal border crossings will drastically decline. This will give whatever administration that is in place greater political cover to take more aggressive measures to secure the border. That is, we can get more aggressive about security with less damage to our relations with Mexico.

Now, if we would get rid of the demand for illegal drugs, we could avoid a large portion of the negative consequences of having additional poor, desperate people hanging about the border. There is only one way to do that: Legalize the drugs and have the government temporarily take over the manufacture and distribution of them.

Then, maybe we could focus with Mexico on finding a real solution for the fact that Mexico has a lot of poor, desperate people.
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Well now how is that possible? mexico is a socialist utopia and we are rushing headlong into becoming the same thing. We have too many social services, too much social spending, unemployment is high and getting higher. The wealthy do well (for now) but how long til the housing bubble finally pops? We cant fix ourselves...and we should focus on fixing them?

Im all for targeting employers...but the only thing worse than having 35 million illegal immigrants in your country is having 35 million UNEMPLOYED and dependent illegal immigrants. And how many states still provide those social services to illegals without collecting taxes to pay for them?

Part of the problem is that this is not an either or problem which is going to be solved with an either or solution. This has to be seal the borders AND target employers AND find a path to some form of legal citizen status AND encourage mexico to engage the problem as a partner and not just as the bleeding end of gushing artery. Its not going to be solved by "arrest them all and deport them" rhetoric, nor will it be solved by "anyone that targets illegal immigration is a racist" rhetoric.
 
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VanceMack said:
[/B]Part of the problem is that this is not an either or problem which is going to be solved with an either or solution. This has to be seal the borders AND target employers AND find a path to some form of legal citizen status AND encourage mexico to engage the problem as a partner and not just as the bleeding end of gushing artery. Its not going to be solved by "arrest them all and deport them" rhetoric, nor will it be solved by "anyone that targets illegal immigration is a racist" rhetoric.
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I believe that's pronounced, Bingo! Your last sentence is soooo important.
 
texmaster said:
How on God's green earth is this a good idea?

From the article:

While the sweeps of the past commonly led to the deportation of such workers, the “silent raids,” as employers call the audits, usually result in the workers being fired, but in many cases they are not deported.

What is the point if you don't pick them up? How many have criminal records? How many will simply move to another job? No, this is a terrible idea that solves nothing. The illegals are still in country and not picked up.

Its a complete farce and once again proves Obama cares nothing about the law if they are simply fired.
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Deport an illegal worker (costs $) on Monday and he'll be back on the job on Thursday. That's what's been going on for a long time. The employer fines need to be substantial. That word would travel fast.
 
VanceMack said:
[/B]

This has to be seal the borders AND target employers AND find a path to some form of legal citizen status AND encourage mexico to engage the problem as a partner and not just as the bleeding end of gushing artery. Its not going to be solved by "arrest them all and deport them" rhetoric, nor will it be solved by "anyone that targets illegal immigration is a racist" rhetoric.
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Not to derail the thread, but....You can't have just a little socialism. It always grows...always. Hell, let's cut to the chase: The sequence of steps that's going to run the, US into the ground is the weight of socialistic programs such social security and medicare.

It won't be illegal immigrants, al qaeda or the dumbasses over at handgun control.
 
VanceMack said:
[/B]

Well now how is that possible? mexico is a socialist utopia and we are rushing headlong into becoming the same thing. We have too many social services, too much social spending, unemployment is high and getting higher. The wealthy do well (for now) but how long til the housing bubble finally pops? We cant fix ourselves...and we should focus on fixing them?

Im all for targeting employers...but the only thing worse than having 35 million illegal immigrants in your country is having 35 million UNEMPLOYED and dependent illegal immigrants. And how many states still provide those social services to illegals without collecting taxes to pay for them?

Part of the problem is that this is not an either or problem which is going to be solved with an either or solution. This has to be seal the borders AND target employers AND find a path to some form of legal citizen status AND encourage mexico to engage the problem as a partner and not just as the bleeding end of gushing artery. Its not going to be solved by "arrest them all and deport them" rhetoric, nor will it be solved by "anyone that targets illegal immigration is a racist" rhetoric.
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If there's a Socialist Utopia - where everyone is equal pay/equal rights - then why are they fleeing it in such large numbers?
 
Mickey Shane said:
Deport an illegal worker (costs $) on Monday and he'll be back on the job on Thursday. That's what's been going on for a long time. The employer fines need to be substantial. That word would travel fast.
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This is why when an illegal is caught in a raid, he or she should be tossed in jail for six months for their first offense like the law says they can.

Illegal Immigration IS A CRIME!
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

* Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
* Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
* Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
If there's a Socialist Utopia - where everyone is equal pay/equal rights - then why are they fleeing it in such large numbers?
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Dammit...I forgot the sarcasm alert again... :doh
 
ric27 said:
Not to derail the thread, but....You can't have just a little socialism. It always grows...always. Hell, let's cut to the chase: The sequence of steps that's going to run the, US into the ground is the weight of socialistic programs such social security and medicare.

It won't be illegal immigrants, al qaeda or the dumbasses over at handgun control.
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I agree...all you have to do is look at the blue states and you can see it happening already.

I dont agree that you cant have positive social programs...but they should be local and state run (or better yet PRIVATELY funded and run...let those that bleat on about liberal ideologies put their money where their motuh is) and designed for short term hand UP situations...not long term programs to keep the pets (voters) crippled and dependent on the federal govt for their support and sustainment.
 
3 million? lets put this in perspective. :lol:



its one part, we need to close the border and deport illegals....
 
jamesrage said:
I disagree. Illegals will just flee to wherever is not being affected by raids.




The Seattle Times: Local News: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices
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More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ½ hours for an acre of wheat.
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The problem with your view is that most businesses are looking at the small % they get to make them just a litter more competitive. They look for edges of 1/2% or more. The apples are at 1 to 2% and the housing is at 17%. That makes it very understandable to hire illegals instead of others. That throws out of work those who would otherwise be employed in dojng that job. Where I live in Florida the illegals are taking over the lawn care business. I have two friends in that business and one went out of business while the other is forced to hire them to remain competitive. The real cost is to those who used to have those jobs. This makes the unskilled American laborers have major problems getting jobs. That is the real human cost.
 
VanceMack said:
I agree...all you have to do is look at the blue states and you can see it happening already.

I dont agree that you cant have positive social programs...but they should be local and state run (or better yet PRIVATELY funded and run...let those that bleat on about liberal ideologies put their money where their motuh is) and designed for short term hand UP situations...not long term programs to keep the pets (voters) crippled and dependent on the federal govt for their support and sustainment.
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I'm fiscally conservative... meaning that I don't want the government telling me how to live my life or extorting money from me for bull**** social program pork or wealth redistribution. I'm also an American first guy, meaning, the US should do what is best for Americans first and worry about the worlds problems only after our problems at home are solved.

We fix this issue, not by spending more, but by spending less.

Take education, health care and and yes!....minimum wage laws

If education wasnt paid for by the Fed gov (not taken out of our taxes) and was ruled by market forces, not only would we have higher quality of education, but we would remove one big incentive for the pesky illegals. Health..same result. Leave it entirely to the free market and with NO minimum wage laws, you would remove a large part of the demand for illegal labor. They would run more efficiently meaning.... more products to more americans for less money. You would also increase output and hire more people
 
Has anyone asked the obvious questions?

What correlation, if any, exists between companies raided and their contributions and support of the Democrat party?

Since publicizing such raids to the largest audience possible will help to deter further invasion and encourage some invaders to depart, why are this raids done invisibly?

Since the Invader caught is, in fact, known to be in the country illegally, why is he not held and deported? What purpose is served for Obama to catch and release? Do the Democrats feel the Invader is some rare exotic species of fish that needs careful husbandry in controlled breeding ponds?

What is the relationship between targetted businesses and the status of unionization at those firms? Are the raids happening at union shops because Invaders pull down wages, or are the raids being conducted preferentially against non-union shops as a form of selective prosecution to punish them for not unionizing?

No, that these questions exist unanswered tells me the raids aren't part of any coherent plan to eradicate the Invader, and some other game is being played.
 
ric27 said:
If education wasnt paid for by the Fed gov (not taken out of our taxes) and was ruled by market forces, not only would we have higher quality of education, but we would remove one big incentive for the pesky illegals. Health..same result. Leave it entirely to the free market and with NO minimum wage laws, you would remove a large part of the demand for illegal labor. They would run more efficiently meaning.... more products to more americans for less money. You would also increase output and hire more people
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Don't stop short. Extend your logic. If there was no welfare for citizens the pressure for jobs for unskilled labor would increase, forcing the Mexican out of the market as the unemployed masses demanded comprehensive immigration ENFORCEMENT to prevent employers from undercutting their wages. So long as the uneducated masses can collect a government check and watch Oprah, there's no incentive for them to work or worry about invaders taking the unskilled jobs.

Stop subsidizing indolence and there would be a huge political push to clean America of these Invading aliens.
 
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