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Thread: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    How do you prove the employeer knew the person was an illegal when that person presents id and a social with a stolen identity?

    Because of privacy laws in just about every state a private individual does no have the right to check the drivers license or ID of a person.

    How can an employeer be held responsible for that?

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post


    Because you don't live there now thats so easy to say which has been and is my point.
    Saying that I am wrong because I don't live there is not a 'point'. I mean, really, whose experience should I believe? Mine? Yours? My Relatives who still live there? My Friends? All the opinions are different, but none that I have heard agree with you that the situation is so dire that the world is going to end tomorrow if we take a ramped up response as opposed to a dramatic sweep.

    You keep bringing up that I don't live there, but you don't address my points. What do YOU think is going to happen with the illegal workers when there is no longer demand for non-violent employment? What do YOU think they are going to do? Melt back into Mexico? Explain it to us, if you're so right. It should be a simple matter, if it is so obvious.

    Easy for me to say what? That violence will increase because all the illegal workers in non-violent jobs are made more readily available to be worker for the violent cartels?



    I only deal with what you have said. a measured response is not the statement of someone who actually knows how dangerous the situation is I don't care how long you spent in Houston or LA.

    Your inability to deal with the here and now speaks volumes.
    Fine. Go on blundering about your life without thinking things through. If that works for you, great. But, its not going to convince me of anything here in this conversation.

    And I have read the thread and you never once dealt with the current violence so don't make up things you never addressed.
    I talked about a solution to the current and possible increase in violence.

    You do realize that the violence along the border is not going to go away as long as there is demand for the drugs here in the U.S, right? You're so convinced that its the fault of those awful Mexicans here illegally, simply because the two problems coincide right now. But, the violence won't end once there are zero illegal immigrants. Ultimately, they will find some way to meet the demand, here. Some way around the system we put in place. Forgive me if I'm not that interested in big spending for such misguided and doomed to fail efforts.

    The violence along the border is mostly a result of demand for illegal drugs. If we are to make any headway at all toward a solution, we must either end the demand for drugs or end the illegality of them. Now, which of those two things do we as a society really have control over? How HAS keeping drugs illegal been working out for us?

    What ARE you suggesting we do about the fact that all the workers we put out of work will be available and more willing than ever to work for the cartels? The thing that separates us from the animals is that we aren't only stuck in the "here and now", but that we are able to anticipate and plan for consequences. Show me that you're not just a monkey typing away at a keyboard.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    How do you prove the employeer knew the person was an illegal when that person presents id and a social with a stolen identity?

    Because of privacy laws in just about every state a private individual does no have the right to check the drivers license or ID of a person.

    How can an employeer be held responsible for that?
    Thats a tough one...

    Employers *managers* are supposed to verify citizenship in order to hire people, but some ignore the falsity of the documents beforehand, or someone uses a stolen ID from some citizen.

    Once, the illegal flashes his stolen *insert state* license, its a done deal. On the other side (business wise) employers can only go on the documents in front of them. They will bitch about not being immigration document specialists..."I'm not trained for this ****", "How am I going to know?", "it's not my ****ing job", etc, etc

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    How do you prove the employeer knew the person was an illegal when that person presents id and a social with a stolen identity?

    Because of privacy laws in just about every state a private individual does no have the right to check the drivers license or ID of a person.

    How can an employeer be held responsible for that?
    ... pretty damned good question, actually. Hadn't thought of that.
    Although there are certainly employers who don't bother asking for SSN's. Those guys deserve a legal ass-kicking. Anyone who pays anyone "under the table" deserves it. I didn't spend all these tax dollars building roads and schools so that you could skip out on paying taxes.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-12-10 at 12:58 AM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t...10enforce.html


    Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.

    Except that with this policy we not only have illegal aliens...we have unemployed illegal aliens. That's better.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Except that with this policy we not only have illegal aliens...we have unemployed illegal aliens. That's better.
    The hope is they'll stop coming if they can't get jobs. The ones already here? Well... maybe they'll go home? :/
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Saying that I am wrong because I don't live there is not a 'point'.
    Actually it is when you consider your lackluster response to the problem.

    I mean, really, whose experience should I believe? Mine? Yours? My Relatives who still live there? My Friends? All the opinions are different, but none that I have heard agree with you that the situation is so dire that the world is going to end tomorrow if we take a ramped up response as opposed to a dramatic sweep.
    Stop being melodramatic. Everyone knows what to do. You either do it or you delay it. You want delay. I want action because people are being hurt right now.

    You keep bringing up that I don't live there, but you don't address my points.
    Make a point and I'll adress it. So far you've stayed as general as possible with the only "point" being you want a delayed response.

    What do YOU think is going to happen with the illegal workers when there is no longer demand for non-violent employment? What do YOU think they are going to do? Melt back into Mexico? Explain it to us, if you're so right. It should be a simple matter, if it is so obvious.
    Actually it is. They will leave and go home. Observe.

    Many of the cars that once stopped in the Home Depot parking lot to pick up day laborers to hang drywall or do landscaping now just drive on by.

    Arizona's sweeping immigration bill allows police to arrest illegal immigrant day laborers seeking work on the street or anyone trying to hire them. It won't take effect until summer but it is already having an effect on the state's underground economy.

    "Nobody wants to pick us up," Julio Loyola Diaz says in Spanish as he and dozens of other men wait under the shade of palo verde trees and lean against a low brick wall outside the east Phoenix home improvement store.

    Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants.


    Illegal Immigrants Leaving Arizona Over New Law - CBS News

    See what happens when action is taken and people don't live in the world of theory like you do?

    Easy for me to say what? That violence will increase because all the illegal workers in non-violent jobs are made more readily available to be worker for the violent cartels?
    hahaha What a defeatist attitude you have. We can't get rid of their jobs because then the drug cartels will employ them and we can't deport them because its mean.

    I'll tell you what. You find an article talking about the employee problems within the Cartels and I'll wait laughing here while you try and find something to back up your rediculus claim.

    Fine. Go on blundering about your life without thinking things through. If that works for you, great. But, its not going to convince me of anything here in this conversation.
    See what is your problem. We have thought things through because we live with it down here every day. Just because you are new at this doesn't mean we are going to slow down and drawn it in crayon until you catch up.

    I talked about a solution to the current and possible increase in violence.
    No you didn't. And you never addressed how we would combat the voilence.

    You do realize that the violence along the border is not going to go away as long as there is demand for the drugs here in the U.S, right? You're so convinced that its the fault of those awful Mexicans here illegally, simply because the two problems coincide right now. But, the violence won't end once there are zero illegal immigrants. Ultimately, they will find some way to meet the demand, here. Some way around the system we put in place. Forgive me if I'm not that interested in big spending for such misguided and doomed to fail efforts.
    I know drugs would be a hell of lot higher in cost if the borders were secure. I know that the illegals employed to bring the drugs would be fewer and far between if the chance they would be deported rose sharply. Again we are back to you wanting to do nothing because its "hard". Well we can't wait for you to catch up with what we already know.

    The violence along the border is mostly a result of demand for illegal drugs. If we are to make any headway at all toward a solution, we must either end the demand for drugs or end the illegality of them. Now, which of those two things do we as a society really have control over? How HAS keeping drugs illegal been working out for us?
    The way you make it harder is to control the flow better. Raise the price. Make it harder to bring in. Unfettered access from the border is the first problem. Dealing with addiction is the second.

    Easy analogy for you. If there's a hole in the dam do you repair it fist or start bailing out the water?

    What ARE you suggesting we do about the fact that all the workers we put out of work will be available and more willing than ever to work for the cartels? The thing that separates us from the animals is that we aren't only stuck in the "here and now", but that we are able to anticipate and plan for consequences. Show me that you're not just a monkey typing away at a keyboard.
    If you are going to continue this nonscense about a worker shortage in the Cartels you are going to have to show us all some evidence.

    And if you think illegals are only interested in working I've got some sad news for you. Criminals come with them. They rob, rape, and kill. The tighter the border the less we have to deal with criminals as well.


    But you and your defeatest attitude don't want to plug the hole, you want to look around at the water coming in and think about it.

    Sorry, we can't wait for you.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The hope is they'll stop coming if they can't get jobs. The ones already here? Well... maybe they'll go home? :/
    They won't leave, they'll stay and figure out a different way to make money.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The hope is they'll stop coming if they can't get jobs. The ones already here? Well... maybe they'll go home? :/
    Thats why Obama's plan is so stupid. He rounds no one up. We have no idea who these people are or what crimes they could have participated in.

    Its about the dumbest "plan" I've ever seen on this issue.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Thats why Obama's plan is so stupid. He rounds no one up. We have no idea who these people are or what crimes they could have participated in.

    Its about the dumbest "plan" I've ever seen on this issue.
    It still attacks the demand for cheap labor rather than the supply of it, something that is worthwhile. If there aren't any jobs to fill, the torrent of border crossings will slow greatly.

    Also, saying that the administration is "doing nothing" about the people already here is wrong. They're doing exactly what the last four or five administrations did.

    Doing more of both is clearly the best strategy.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-12-10 at 01:36 AM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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