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Thread: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

  1. #51
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    A reason for what?


    Not to believe what?

    All I have done, here, is to present factors that any intelligent person already knows is part of the picture, and that are completely ignored by the simplistic information presented. Methinks that it is YOU who is looking for an excuse not to believe. You just readily accept ANYTHING that confirms what you've already decided.
    If you were truelky intellegent as you claim you wouldn't be in favror of a non descriptive "measured pace". Phoenix is the kidnapping captial of North America due to illegals and drugs. There are new signs in Arizona's southwest warning citizens to keep out because they are high traffic areas for illegals and drugs. Police are being regularly shot at with automatic weapons from coyotes and drug cartels inside our own border.

    Your inability to come to terms with the reality on the ground is precicly what I am talking about. Action must be taken now. You are so disconnected living so far from a southern border state you can't even comprehend what Americans are facing down here.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Temporarily. Until we ramp up to include whatever we leave aside at first.





    Perhaps you are right. But, I am unconvinced, because I am not being presented with a complete picture, here. In all of your quote, nothing is said that measures the effect of inflation on wages that would occur as a result of a decrease in supply of workers. This inflation on wages could greatly increase the legal worker expenditures shown in the information you present.

    Nothing you present addresses this effect to either refute its significance or confirm it.

    In addition, the effect could also force wages up in other industries as they all compete for the same workers. This is another hidden cost of effective illegal immigration policies. The information you present ignores this effect as well.

    Finally, IF wages increase at a fast pace on the low end, then general inflation will also increase. This will force the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates in response. This could start or extend a recession.

    Effective illegal immigration policies would represent a major shift in the labor markets. I admit that I don't know what the full effects would be, but your article is entirely simplistic, so you obviously don't either.

    None of which is to say that I think we shouldn't have effective policies. Just that we may need to pace them intelligently.
    Actually, my bad!! The article does address some of the issues I raised!! To be fair (to myself), my browser screwed me up. I didn't see that the article was as extensive as it is.

    Here is a quote:
    Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.

    A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.

    But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run — dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)

    If illegal workers disappeared from the apple harvest and wages for the remaining legal workers rose by 40 percent in response — and that entire wage increase were passed on to the consumer — that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.
    On Construction:

    If the supply of illegal workers were cut off, wages for those low-skilled jobs presumably would have to rise enough to attract legal workers into them. If, hypothetically, wage levels rose by a third, that would either add around $1,600 to the cost of the typical house or shave half a percentage point off the builder's 12 percent average profit margin.
    I take it back. I think that we can probably proceed with new effective policies without fear of serious economic problem.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You want people to be happy with token raids that only give the employer a slap on the wrist with a free bus ticket home for the illegals and a sparsely guarded border? Why does it make sense to say here criminal enjoy your free ticket home,see ya soon? Illegal immigration requires more than just deportation and token raids. It requires the following-
    1.seriously cracking down on those who hire illegals
    2.jailing illegals who are caught, it takes two to tango and illegals are just as guilty as those that hire them.
    3.denying tax payer funded services to illegals. That means no food handlers permits, driver's licenses,permits, business permits, building permits or any other permit, welfare,section 8 housing, foodstamps, car tag renewal and other service.
    4.allowing local police to verify the legal status of those they stop for a traffic offense or some other form of lawful contact
    5.Jailing those who harbor and or aid illegals and this includes the politicians who have their tongues in so deep when tossing the salad of illegals and pro-illegals.
    6.Require financial institutions such as banks, check cashing places and money wiring services to verify the legal status of those they do business with.[If illegals are denied tax payer funded services then mostly these places should only have to check a driver's license/ID and a social security card.]
    7.Require property owners to verify the legal status of those they rent,sell,lend or give property to.[If illegals are denied tax payer funded services then mostly these places should only have to check a driver's license/ID and a social security card.]
    8.Require those selling a to verify that person buying a car has a valid drivers license.



    You do not have to put 12-20 million illegals in jail, just the ones that are caught and those caught hiring them in jail. If you adequately crack down on both parties involved you remove the incentive for employers to hire illegals and for illegals to get jobs in the US. Employers will not want to hire illegals and illegals will not want to risk going to jail for six months or longer. When the US has seriously cracked down on illegals and those that harbor them they will deport themselves like with Operation Wetback in 1954 and Mexican Repatriation in the 1928-1939. You do not have to round up all 12-20 million plus illegals nor do you have to jail all of them.
    I am now leaning toward believing that all these measures should be put in place as soon as possible.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    If you were truelky intellegent as you claim you wouldn't be in favror of a non descriptive "measured pace". Phoenix is the kidnapping captial of North America due to illegals and drugs. There are new signs in Arizona's southwest warning citizens to keep out because they are high traffic areas for illegals and drugs. Police are being regularly shot at with automatic weapons from coyotes and drug cartels inside our own border.

    Your inability to come to terms with the reality on the ground is precicly what I am talking about. Action must be taken now. You are so disconnected living so far from a southern border state you can't even comprehend what Americans are facing down here.
    Oh, you are too funny by far. I have lived in Los Angeles, and still have many ties there. I also have ties in Houston, TX.

    As to the problem with violence along the border: It will probably increase as we gut the demand for illegal workers in non-violent industries. Nevertheless, I still believe we should proceed with haste with new reforms.

    And to deal with the violence, there is only ONE solution, which I have already advocated in an earlier post to this thread. You act as though I hadn't already addressed these problems, because again, you see only what you want to see.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think it is worth applauding. It's tackling the problem from the right end, and it has, based on the article, been a more effective use of manpower as far as finding illegals. Further it goes after those companies that hire illegals, which I think is a good thing. It's only flaw is that it does not go far enough. So it's a good thing, that falls short of being a great thing.
    See, I think its going after ONE of the right ends. However, to start going after that right end they've stopped going after the other right end.

    I agree, the correct action is punishing the businesses AND the illegals. This is focusing on just one side of it, and I can't fully get behind it unless there's some kind of evidence its actually having an affect on anyone other than the businesses its targeting.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    See, I think its going after ONE of the right ends. However, to start going after that right end they've stopped going after the other right end.

    I agree, the correct action is punishing the businesses AND the illegals. This is focusing on just one side of it, and I can't fully get behind it unless there's some kind of evidence its actually having an affect on anyone other than the businesses its targeting.
    Well, it's hard to find evidence that there's an effect before you actually create the cause. Maybe we'll see the effect in six months.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #57
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Oh, you are too funny by far. I have lived in Los Angeles, and still have many ties there. I also have ties in Houston, TX.
    Then you should know better.

    As to the problem with violence along the border: It will probably increase as we gut the demand for illegal workers in non-violent industries. Nevertheless, I still believe we should proceed with haste with new reforms.
    Because you don't live there now thats so easy to say which has been and is my point.

    And to deal with the violence, there is only ONE solution, which I have already advocated in an earlier post to this thread. You act as though I hadn't already addressed these problems, because again, you see only what you want to see.
    I only deal with what you have said. a measured response is not the statement of someone who actually knows how dangerous the situation is I don't care how long you spent in Houston or LA.

    Your inability to deal with the here and now speaks volumes.

    And I have read the thread and you never once dealt with the current violence so don't make up things you never addressed.
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-11-10 at 04:32 PM.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t...10enforce.html





    Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.
    SEEMS being the operative word.
    With a reported 11,000,000 illegal immigrants in the US, wonder how many Obama is quietly compelling to voluntarily leave US.
    A total fine of $3,000,000 from 2900 firms means on average each firm paid $1034.48.
    Now would that be the fine for each Illegal employed?

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    SEEMS being the operative word.
    With a reported 11,000,000 illegal immigrants in the US, wonder how many Obama is quietly compelling to voluntarily leave US.
    A total fine of $3,000,000 from 2900 firms means on average each firm paid $1034.48.
    Now would that be the fine for each Illegal employed?
    No idea, of course I have no reason to suspect this will be the limit of this tactic. Continuous pressure/scrutiny and repeated fines would probably make any employer reconsider their hiring practices.

    This definitely seems like a more efficient method than having forty agents kick a door down.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-11-10 at 05:54 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t...10enforce.html



    Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.
    If he's not deporting them, he's not doing his job. All he wants is the civil fines. Then if he can get them amnesty, he knows they will all vote Democrat. Do you think he would be trying to get them amnesty if he knew they would all vote Republican?

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