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Thread: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Any truly effective measures to deal with illegal workers should probably be ramped up rather than implemented in a grand and sudden push. I don't think we really want a massive business shock to our industries that depend on them. As others have hinted at here, we will be paying more for stuff as a result of more effective measures. We don't want to send shockwaves through these industries which would show up in the produce section of our markets.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Dezaad said:We don't want to send shockwaves through these industries which would show up in the produce section of our markets.
    Get over it. When employers are forced to pay liveable wages, it's going to show up everywhere. We can't be hypocrits. "Solve this problem!!! But don't make ME pay any more."
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Any truly effective measures to deal with illegal workers should probably be ramped up rather than implemented in a grand and sudden push..
    I disagree. Illegals will just flee to wherever is not being affected by raids.

    I don't think we really want a massive business shock to our industries that depend on them. As others have hinted at here, we will be paying more for stuff as a result of more effective measures. We don't want to send shockwaves through these industries which would show up in the produce section of our markets.

    The Seattle Times: Local News: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices



    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ˝ hours for an acre of wheat.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Get over it. When employers are forced to pay liveable wages, it's going to show up everywhere. We can't be hypocrits. "Solve this problem!!! But don't make ME pay any more."
    I'm not saying we shouldn't put effective measures in place. I'm just saying take a measured pace in putting them in place. We do need to be smart about this, that is all. Jeez, it's like you can't even talk about some of the possible negative consequences and how to deal with them without people freaking out.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t...10enforce.html

    Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.[/QUOTE]

    The biggest problem in Arizona is the drug trafficers that seem to control the paths into the US. There are thugs from Mexico that have hurt, killed and kidnapped many people in the Phoenix area. This is a major problem that Obama is ignoring. It is why Arizona is requesting troops on the border. The National guard troops that Obama is sending are to sit in offices. Stupidity in action.
    Last edited by Endoscopy; 07-11-10 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I'm not saying we shouldn't put effective measures in place. I'm just saying take a measured pace in putting them in place. We do need to be smart about this, that is all. Jeez, it's like you can't even talk about some of the possible negative consequences and how to deal with them without people freaking out.
    What the hell does that mean? A measured pace? If you were on a border state you would be thinking rather differently.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    We do tend to zero in on stuff, don't we? Mea culpa. I believe the current vernacular is "My bad." I guess that's the nature of public forums. If everyone were reasonable, it wouldn't be any fun.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I disagree. Illegals will just flee to wherever is not being affected by raids.
    Temporarily. Until we ramp up to include whatever we leave aside at first.



    The Seattle Times: Local News: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices



    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ˝ hours for an acre of wheat.
    Perhaps you are right. But, I am unconvinced, because I am not being presented with a complete picture, here. In all of your quote, nothing is said that measures the effect of inflation on wages that would occur as a result of a decrease in supply of workers. This inflation on wages could greatly increase the legal worker expenditures shown in the information you present.

    Nothing you present addresses this effect to either refute its significance or confirm it.

    In addition, the effect could also force wages up in other industries as they all compete for the same workers. This is another hidden cost of effective illegal immigration policies. The information you present ignores this effect as well.

    Finally, IF wages increase at a fast pace on the low end, then general inflation will also increase. This will force the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates in response. This could start or extend a recession.

    Effective illegal immigration policies would represent a major shift in the labor markets. I admit that I don't know what the full effects would be, but your article is entirely simplistic, so you obviously don't either.

    None of which is to say that I think we shouldn't have effective policies. Just that we may need to pace them intelligently.
    Last edited by Dezaad; 07-11-10 at 01:11 PM.
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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Temporarily. Until we ramp up to include whatever we leave aside at first.





    Perhaps you are right. But, I am unconvinced, because I am not being presented with a complete picture, here. In all of your quote, nothing is said that measures the effect of inflation on wages that would occur as a result of a decrease in supply of workers. This inflation on wages could greatly increase the legal worker expenditures shown in the information you present.

    Nothing you present addresses this effect to either refute its significance or confirm it.

    In addition, the effect could also force wages up in other industries as they all compete for the same workers. This is another hidden cost of effective illegal immigration policies. The information you present ignores this effect as well.

    Finally, IF wages increase at a fast pace on the low end, then general inflation will also increase. This will force the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates in response. This could start or extend a recession.

    Effective illegal immigration policies would represent a major shift in the labor markets. I admit that I don't know what the full effects would be, but your article is entirely simplistic, so you obviously don't either.

    None of which is to say that I think we shouldn't have effective policies. Just that we may need to pace them intelligently.
    You don't want to see a reason. You are looking for an excuse not to believe.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You don't want to see a reason.
    A reason for what?

    You are looking for an excuse not to believe.
    Not to believe what?

    All I have done, here, is to present factors that any intelligent person already knows is part of the picture, and that are completely ignored by the simplistic information presented. Methinks that it is YOU who is looking for an excuse not to believe. You just readily accept ANYTHING that confirms what you've already decided.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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