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Thread: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

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    Student Frozengale's Avatar
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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    I'm curious... what do you think will happen if we ban all offshore drilling. I mean obviously we still will have things that run on Oil/Gas, so obviously we will still need it. We will just have to buy it from other countries. Do you really think at least a percentage of what we buy from other places aren't going to be using some form of offshore drilling? So is this just another cause of "Don't ask questions"? As long as WE aren't the ones doing the drilling and yet we still reap the end result then it's all happy and nice. Or do you really think these other countries have some sort of magical oil powers where they don't damage the environment in some way?

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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozengale View Post
    I'm curious... what do you think will happen if we ban all offshore drilling. I mean obviously we still will have things that run on Oil/Gas, so obviously we will still need it. We will just have to buy it from other countries. Do you really think at least a percentage of what we buy from other places aren't going to be using some form of offshore drilling? So is this just another cause of "Don't ask questions"? As long as WE aren't the ones doing the drilling and yet we still reap the end result then it's all happy and nice. Or do you really think these other countries have some sort of magical oil powers where they don't damage the environment in some way?
    I think that our country needs to find a better way to address our petroleum addiction than taking short-sighted approaches that can have an impact that lasts for decades.

    I'm guessing that you're not living in an area that's being poisoned by offshore drilling, so it's easy for you to propose doing it. But for us, offshore drilling is having a drastic impact on our entire state. We're watching the oil from deepwater slowly creep closer to the places that we love, and watching people's livelihoods being destroyed moment by moment, not to mention the destruction of the beautiful place and the local wildlife. It is a daily horror show being played out right in front of us..

    IMHO, we need to raise the taxes on petrochemicals to a level that forces people to make tough choices about wasteful fuel consumption, and use those taxes to fund research into sustainable alternatives.

    No, I don't feel my state should be ruined so you can drive a Ford F-350. Americans need to start paying the real price for their fuel consumption choices.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-09-10 at 01:00 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I'm dreading when it reaches Panama City, Destin, and Cape San Blas...some of the most beautiful sugar sand beaches on earth, and still wild and lovely.
    I've heard it's already reached Destin. I've seen projections where it wraps around the Keys and goes up the east coast. Granted, those are doomsday scenarios that probably won't happen, but even if it never gets as far as Panama City we're still talking about damage to the public image of the Gulf Coast. Tourists in the midwest will think:

    Tourist 1: "Hey, let's go to Daytona Beach for spring break!"
    Tourist 2: "Wait a minute, isn't that where they had that oil spill?"
    Tourist 1: "Oh yeah, lets just go to California instead."

    Nevermind that a simple google search can reveal that oil never got that far. It's the public perception that is at issue. If nothing else this amendment is about protecting our image. We want those idiot tourists to think of Florida as "that state that banned oil drilling."
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 07-09-10 at 01:08 PM.

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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I've heard it's already reached Destin. I've seen projections where it wraps around the Keys and goes up the east coast. Granted, those are doomsday scenarios that probably won't happen, but even if it never gets as far as Panama City we're still talking about damage to the public image of the Gulf Coast. Tourists in the midwest will think:

    Tourist 1: "Hey, let's go to Daytona Beach from spring break!"
    Tourist 2: "Wait a minute, isn't that where they had that oil spill?"
    Tourist 1: "Oh yeah, lets just go to California instead."

    Nevermind that a simple google search can reveal that oil never got that far. It's the public perception that is at issue. If nothing else this amendment is about protecting our image. We want those idiot tourists to think of Florida as "that state that banned oil drilling."
    I actually have an ap on my phone that tracks the spill. So far, it hasn't reached Destin, but Okaloosa county is being very aggressive in getting ready for it because their livelihoods are so dependent on tourism. And, unlike a lot of areas, Okaloosa county is not allowing BP to dictate how things will be done. For which, frankly, I commend them.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-09-10 at 01:04 PM.

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    Student Frozengale's Avatar
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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think that our country needs to find a better way to address our petroleum addiction than taking short-sighted approaches that can have an impact that lasts for decades.

    I'm guessing that you're not living in an area that's being poisoned by offshore drilling, so it's easy for you to propose doing it. But for us, drilling right offshore our beaches can have a drastic impact on my entire state. We're watching the oil from deepwater slowly creep closer to the places that we love, and watching people's livelihoods being destroyed moment by moment.

    IMHO, we need to raise the taxes on petrochemicals to a level that forces people to make tough choices about wasteful fuel consumption, and use those taxes to fund research into sustainable alternatives.

    No, I don't feel my state should be ruined so you can drive a Ford F-350 and look like a bad ass.
    But it's okay for OTHER places that aren't your home town to have to deal with this? And don't make silly little straw-men arguments either. I drive a Neon, tiny little car, not some big huge car. The point is that there will still be offshore drilling. Do you really think other countries will handle it better and somehow not end up damaging the environment. I agree that we do need better solutions, but to act like we are doing some great service by just shifting the dirt from under one carpet to the next is nothing more then hypocrisy.

    You're probably one of those people that's okay with the fact that other countries suffer so we can live in a "Greener" world. (Chinese pay toxic price for a green world - Times Online)

    See I can make straw-men as well!
    Last edited by Frozengale; 07-09-10 at 01:08 PM.

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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    And, unlike a lot of areas, Okaloosa county is not allowing BP to dictate how things will be done. For which, frankly, I commend them.
    Nice. That's good to hear, both that they aren't hit yet and that they aren't letting BP beancounters push them around. Destin/Ft. Walton area would fall apart without their beaches, so I'm glad they aren't just taking it on the chin.

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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozengale View Post
    But it's okay for OTHER places that aren't your home town to have to deal with this. And don't make silly little straw-men arguments either.
    Your entire post is a strawman.

    For the record, yes, I think other countries handle their dependence on petroleum much better than we do.

    I think America should stop subsidizing the oil companies and risking the destruction of our land and water.

    I think we should tax the **** out of petroleum products to encourage Americans to make better choices about fuel consumption.

    And, I practice what I preach with a solar water heater, responsible fuel consumption, conserving energy in my home, and recycling like mad.

    I don't believe our current way of life is sustainable, and hard choices will have to be made. However, the era of the federal government subsidizing the actual cost of petroleum drilling and manufacturing should END. TODAY.

    And, while I can't control what other people do in their states re: drilling, I can vote against it being done here, where I live.

    You like oil so much, you should speculate and dig a well in your backyard. I hear it's clean energy.

    For the record, Europe is kicking our ass in the sustainable technology war, while those from the dark ages in the U.S. fight against progress.

    http://www.energyportal.eu/latest-gr...na-and-us.html

    I do have to question, why, as a libertarian, you are so opposed to letting Floridians decide, for ourselves, whether we want drilling off our coasts.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-09-10 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Your entire post is a strawman. Yes, I think other countries handle their dependence on petroleum much better than we do. Yes, I think America should stop subsidizing the oil companies and risking the destruction of our land and water. Yes, I think we should tax the **** out of petroleum products to encourage Americans to make better choices about fuel consumption. And yes, I practice what I preach with a solar water heater, responsible fuel consumption, conserving energy, and recycling like mad.
    The fact is that no matter where we get the fuel there will be offshore drilling by someone somewhere. So all you're asking us it to get rid of ours and then buy it from somewhere else. So essentially we are keeping the same risk factor of something going terribly wrong, but NOW we are going to be paying a lot more for it. It doesn't solve ANYTHING! So unless you want to COMPLETELY end our dependency on oil right here right now (You better have one heck of a scientific break-through in the next few minutes) then there is nothing we can do. You can preach all you want about responsible fuel consumption but the point is we STILL NEED FUEL. We will get it from somewhere. And just because it came from somewhere else doesn't mean we don't have to deal with the risks. It just means you don't have to see the outcome of the risks.

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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozengale View Post
    The fact is that no matter where we get the fuel there will be offshore drilling by someone somewhere. So all you're asking us it to get rid of ours and then buy it from somewhere else. So essentially we are keeping the same risk factor of something going terribly wrong, but NOW we are going to be paying a lot more for it. It doesn't solve ANYTHING! So unless you want to COMPLETELY end our dependency on oil right here right now (You better have one heck of a scientific break-through in the next few minutes) then there is nothing we can do. You can preach all you want about responsible fuel consumption but the point is we STILL NEED FUEL. We will get it from somewhere. And just because it came from somewhere else doesn't mean we don't have to deal with the risks. It just means you don't have to see the outcome of the risks.
    We'd need a lot less fuel immediately if we stopped subsidizing the actual costs of fuel, and forced the American public to pay for the actual costs of the fuel they use. We saw this after fuel prices topped $3 a gallon for the first time, in fact. Fuel usage by Americans drastically decreased, to the point that fuel prices dropped. Sales of trucks and SUVs toppled and sales of economy sized cars went up.

    People would adapt. And, I have no doubt that the market would fill the gap.

    Tell me, as a libertarian, how to you justify telling Floridians that we can't enact a ban on drilling off our coast?
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-09-10 at 01:20 PM.

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    Educator ScottD's Avatar
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    Re: Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If they hadn't been forced into deep water and ultra deep water by envirofreaks, we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place...
    Actually that isn't true at all.

    YouTube - Rachel Maddow- The more spills change_ the more they stay the same

    That is Rachel Maddow talking about an oil spill that happened at a depth of 200ft, pretty shallow if you ask me.
    Reality tends to have a liberal bias.

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