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Obama loses drilling moratorium appeal

NolaMan said:
What level are you wanting to tax this at? If we levied all these new taxes on oil and drove the price up, the immediate impact on our economy would be devastating.
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Fine. I'll be content with cutting the subsidies to an industry making record profits annually.
 
It is nice to see someone stick it to the Obama administration............
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Fine. I'll be content with cutting the subsidies to an industry making record profits annually.
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I am fine with that, provided we also eliminate subsidies for wind, solar etc, and truly let the free market win.

You also need to focus in some specific subsidies. In many scenarios oil companies are given subsidies and tax breaks for their research and work into alternative fuel sources. That might be something we might not want to do away with persay if rapid alternative energy development is the end goal.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Fine. I'll be content with cutting the subsidies to an industry making record profits annually.
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The profit margin is 8 to 10%. All businesses are allowed to make profits. That's capitalism. Profits allow more investiment into larger facilities and creating more jobs. Taxing the oil companies just means that the oil companies will pass these taxes onto the consumer in higher gas prices. That's not a winning solution to the consumer.
 
bicycleman said:
The profit margin is 8 to 10%. All businesses are allowed to make profits. That's capitalism. Profits allow more investiment into larger facilities and creating more jobs. Taxing the oil companies just means that the oil companies will pass these taxes onto the consumer in higher gas prices. That's not a winning solution to the consumer.
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Actually, it IS a winning solution for our nation's longterm future IF that higher price forces consumers to make different fuel consumption choices.
 
NolaMan said:
I am fine with that, provided we also eliminate subsidies for wind, solar etc, and truly let the free market win.
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Except that Wind/Solar are clean and sustainable. Petroleum use isn't.

In many scenarios oil companies are given subsidies and tax breaks for their research and work into alternative fuel sources. That might be something we might not want to do away with persay if rapid alternative energy development is the end goal.
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Work on alternative fuel sources should continue to be subsidized. It's much cheaper than funding wars in the middle east.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Except that Wind/Solar are clean and sustainable. Petroleum use isn't.
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Ok, but petroleum is cheap, wind and solar are not. Find a way (without massive subsidies) to make wind and solar economically viable, and I am all for it.

Work on alternative fuel sources should continue to be subsidized.
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I don't disagree persay, but we need to understand that this involves subsidies to oil companies in many scenarios.

It's much cheaper than funding wars in the middle east.
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I don't buy the argument we went to war for oil, but that is not for this thread.
 
liblady said:
and you would rather carry on, business as usual, when it can't be denied that NO oil company has any freaking way to deal with a disaster like the present one?
great idea.
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So do you propose, we never use oil again and get around by horse and buggy, instead?
 
liblady said:
"Inspections of deepwater platforms is ongoing"......
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Seriously? That is your reply? Inspections are by law technically always ongoing on platforms etc... that is nothing new. What this release says is that all the rigs were inspected post the BP blowout and passed. If you opened the inspection report (which I can only assume you did not) you would have seen that every rigs was accounted for that the moratorium covered.

Your argument amounts to arguing that a nuclear plant should be shut down because its scheduled inspection next month has yet to be completed.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, it IS a winning solution for our nation's longterm future IF that higher price forces consumers to make different fuel consumption choices.
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I am a part time farmer, as well as working in the city. I have to drive a long way to work, but even if I didn't drive to work and did only farming, I still have to get fuel for my farm equipment. If I can't get fuel, I can't farm. If I can't farm, I can't plant or grow any crops, so barring planting by hand, eventually the food supply that you city folk depend on will soon dry up, not to mention that truckers won't be able to get diesel fuel to power their trucks. Nothing will run, and you city folk won't be able to buy food because there won't be any, and eventually, you will starve. Without the use of oil, what are you going to live on, Obama's promises, or the smoke he constantly blows up our asses?
 
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bicycleman said:
So do you propose, we never use oil again and get around by horse and buggy, instead?
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no and try to realize this is a serious problem in the US that must be addressed. our overwhelming dependancy on oil can be tapered back alot, if we as americans choose to do so.
no administration wants to be the big bad wolf, but american "can-f'n-doism" has sorely needed a kick in the arse for some time and now is as good a time as any. we no longer seem to be the leader of the pack technologically/financially/evolutionally and that needs to change 180degrees or at least get caught up and even to the rest of civilization.

by the way, the price at the pump in my town is ~2.50 per gal, even in light of all the controversy. we'd be at $5 per gal 3 or 4yrs ago. what is that about?
 
WhyteRash said:
by the way, the price at the pump in my town is ~2.50 per gal, even in light of all the controversy. we'd be at $5 per gal 3 or 4yrs ago. what is that about?
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The BP rig was not yet producing, so its explosion did not really impact supply. Additionally, the economic situation is keeping the price of oil down as demand is not what it was a few years ago, but supply has remained more or less constant over that time frame.

In the same way that oil speculation can drive prices up sometimes, it can also keep them down when people are speculating that a global recovery is not about to take off yet.
 
WhyteRash said:
no and try to realize this is a serious problem in the US that must be addressed. our overwhelming dependancy on oil can be tapered back alot, if we as americans choose to do so.
no administration wants to be the big bad wolf, but american "can-f'n-doism" has sorely needed a kick in the arse for some time and now is as good a time as any. we no longer seem to be the leader of the pack technologically/financially/evolutionally and that needs to change 180degrees or at least get caught up and even to the rest of civilization.

by the way, the price at the pump in my town is ~2.50 per gal, even in light of all the controversy. we'd be at $5 per gal 3 or 4yrs ago. what is that about?
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Soon as the dems start levying taxes on the oil companies, you'll get your $5 gas.
 
bicycleman said:
Soon as the dems start levying taxes on the oil companies, you'll get your $5 gas.
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not saying it couldnt happen, but it would be politcal suicide at this time, being so close to an election cycle..
so as much as some would like to tax the business of oil, i cant see it before november and certainly not after the "balance of power" is hopefully restored at that time.

the bigger question is what is going to happen after november.. alot of big talk(as usual), but are we looking at more of same ol' political "glad handing" to portray legitimate legislation to the unwitting masses?
if anything good can be said of this political environment, it is safe to say that more people than ever are looking at their leaders(local/state/federal) with more scrutiny and IMO, the "public servants" are realizing it.
i feel a pretty good size political flush coming in the next two elections.. i just hope its for the better..
 
Catz Part Deux said:
The entire industry is dirty, unsustainable, and has caused irreparable damage to my state. So, the fact that some oil rig workers are kicking their heels because we've stopped drilling isn't causing me not to sleep at night. You know what? I'm not particularly sorry they're unemployed. I wish Louisiana had NEVER allowed drilling along its coast. I bet a lot of local fishermen feel the same damn way.
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This drilling occurred in federal waters, not in Louisiana waters...
 
Catz Part Deux said:
And we need to find alternatives...my vote would go for taxing the **** out of petroleum drilling and manufacturing in order to fund the development of a sustainable way of life that will not require us to poison our land and water.
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All the while sending the economy into a tailspin that would make the Clinton and Bush43 recessions look MILD by comparison...
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, it IS a winning solution for our nation's longterm future IF that higher price forces consumers to make different fuel consumption choices.
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What alternate fuel choice does the average American who owns a gasoline-fuel car have?
 
ludahai said:
What alternate fuel choice does the average American who owns a gasoline-fuel car have?
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not much... at first...
there is most certainly no perfect answer, but we as americans cant just keep funding the regimes that promote the destruction of our way of life.
IMO, if it werent for the sheer mega-wealth being fed to saudi arabia(and other similar religiously influenced nations with oil for sale) they would gladly finance any anti-western movement.
we need to wean ourselves from their oily teats and soon, so they(all other civilized countries) will again look up to the US as a leader of many facets, including non-fossil fuel sources of energy.(or at least fear our wrath)

it was just a few decades ago when we switched to unleaded gas and required emission controls.. i remember my dad having a fit, talking about the price of auto's going through the roof and how it will crush the average man to own a car. we(joe public) stepped up and overcame, as we will do again.
it seems to always take having an obstacle to birth creativity.. and its been a while.
at the moment, i cant think of a single industry outside of animal and crop farming technologies that we are a leader in.(im sure there is another, but it currently escapes me)

IMO, much of gen X hit the street thinking it was all for free and took great advantage of the creamy crop before them. i liken it to a person who restores a classic car vs the person who up and buys one already done.. or perhaps a comparison from a person who got a job and paid for their first car vs. the kid who's parent(s) simply bought them their first car. the real appreciation just isnt there.
 
WhyteRash said:
not much... at first...
there is most certainly no perfect answer, but we as americans cant just keep funding the regimes that promote the destruction of our way of life.
IMO, if it werent for the sheer mega-wealth being fed to saudi arabia(and other similar religiously influenced nations with oil for sale) they would gladly finance any anti-western movement.
we need to wean ourselves from their oily teats and soon, so they(all other civilized countries) will again look up to the US as a leader of many facets, including non-fossil fuel sources of energy.(or at least fear our wrath)
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I actually agree with you on most of this. I am not comfortable at the power that KSA, Venezuela, Russia and others have because they sit on pools of oil. That is why in the SHORT term we need to exploit the resources available in the free world rather than continue sending our money to dictators who would as soon undermine our way of life as support it.

it was just a few decades ago when we switched to unleaded gas and required emission controls.. i remember my dad having a fit, talking about the price of auto's going through the roof and how it will crush the average man to own a car. we(joe public) stepped up and overcame, as we will do again.
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Not the same thing as cars can run on unleaded fuel. However, existing automobiles are NOT able to run on the alternative fuels being proposed currently.

it seems to always take having an obstacle to birth creativity.. and its been a while.
at the moment, i cant think of a single industry outside of animal and crop farming technologies that we are a leader in.(im sure there is another, but it currently escapes me)
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The problem is that an instant switch would have costs associated with it that most people could not afford. You can't simply tell everyone that they have to get a hybrid car TODAY. It is too expensive for most Americans. You can't insist that everyone buy solar panals for their homes. They are too expensive for the average person. So, sad to say, we need to continue drilling for the foreseeable future. In doing so, we need to do it on our own soil in as safe conditions as possible. Drilling closer to shore is MUCH safer and easier than drilling further out...
 
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