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Thread: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

  1. #321
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Well I was hoping someone as clearly intellectual as yourself might put it all together. I did indicate the gist of my argument, you just missed it. Perhaps it was my intent to promote further discussion on the issue, maybe even a challenge or two; it is, after all my nature to argue.

    That said, here it is:

    1. Homosexuality is not innate, nor is it immutable, it, by all definitions manifest itself as no more than a fetish, and although not necessarily terrible, nothing certainly worthy of regulation, or legislation. Certainly nothing that should be institutionalized, or forced upon an otherwise ill equipped mind.
    This is incorrect. Homosexuality is an orientation, just like heterosexuality. Or are you saying that heterosexuality is a no more than a fetish?

    2. To my next point - By regulating, and legislating homosexual marriage, the State invariably endorses the behavior, and, by direct consequence, proponents of said behavior force it upon the society by way of the schools, and the workplace.
    So the state endorses alcohol and tobacco?

    3. The beef I have is in the schools aspect of it all. Consenting adults are free to make up their own minds, and if it stopped at the adult level, say a restriction on teaching the morality of homosexuality to kids, then I would be i favor of it. but we both know that will not happen. Much like a ban on the commercialization, or marketing of the product, like with alcohol, and tobacco to children, then by all means, have at er.
    So the state does not endorse alcohol and tobacco. You have some problem with telling kids that they are OK being what they are?

    4. Children, in fact up until the age of roughly 20 have an immature pre frontal cortex. It means that they do not have the ability to reason the way adults do. It is why the military like em young, it is why sex with children, even consenting ones is prohibited. It is why most kids right up until they join the adult population, are generally liberal in their thinking. Adult liberals are simply immature conservatives.
    Very good, you manage to not make any point, but be insulting anyways.

    5. Homosexuality is demonstrably harmful to the homosexual, both females and males. They have a much higher incidence of many negative behaviors, and circumstances. The list is extensive, but I suspect you might already know what they are, so can we please stipulate on this point? Given this to be demonstrably true, why would anyone want to promote homosexuality? Promotion of homosexuality will be the norm, through the public schools, if it is deemed gay marriage legal. You can count on it.
    This is false. Feel free to try and document it, it should be fun.

    6. What's the upside of legalizing gay marriage? if you say it's the right thing to do, then I refer you to my authority of morality argument.

    Go ahead, convince me that gay marriage is the right thing to do. I'm all ears.
    Gays increasingly are raising children. Marriage is the most stable type of environment to raise children. There are no logical arguments against gay marriage, and without some evidence of harm, should be allowed. Marriage promotes stable homes, which are good for society.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #322
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    This is going to be easy. Watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Well I was hoping someone as clearly intellectual as yourself might put it all together. I did indicate the gist of my argument, you just missed it. Perhaps it was my intent to promote further discussion on the issue, maybe even a challenge or two; it is, after all my nature to argue.

    That said, here it is:
    1. Homosexuality is not innate, nor is it immutable, it, by all definitions manifest itself as no more than a fetish, and although not necessarily terrible, nothing certainly worthy of regulation, or legislation. Certainly nothing that should be institutionalized, or forced upon an otherwise ill equipped mind.
    1. Heterosexuality is not innate, nor is it immutable. Sexual orientation. ALL sexual orientations fall under the same category. Researchers believe that they are created through a combination of genetics/biology/biochemistry-hormones/environment. Yes, heterosexuality, too. Your opinion that is is defined as a fetish is inaccurate. It is a sexual orientation. Please get your definitions correct.

    2. To my next point - By regulating, and legislating homosexual marriage, the State invariably endorses the behavior, and, by direct consequence, proponents of said behavior force it upon the society by way of the schools, and the workplace.
    No, the state does not force it on anything. By legislating homosexual marriage, you are not required to marry a homosexual. The is no force nor endorcement. It's called regulation. Again, get your defintions correct.

    Further, the state DOES have reason to endorse marriage... all marriage. Plenty of reasons, all of which apply to both hetero and homosexual marriage.

    3. The beef I have is in the schools aspect of it all. Consenting adults are free to make up their own minds, and if it stopped at the adult level, say a restriction on teaching the morality of homosexuality to kids, then I would be i favor of it. but we both know that will not happen. Much like a ban on the commercialization, or marketing of the product, like with alcohol, and tobacco to children, then by all means, have at er.
    No morality should be taught in schools. Information should. Proving information does just that. Provides information.

    4. Children, in fact up until the age of roughly 20 have an immature pre frontal cortex. It means that they do not have the ability to reason the way adults do. It is why the military like em young, it is why sex with children, even consenting ones is prohibited. It is why most kids right up until they join the adult population, are generally liberal in their thinking. Adult liberals are simply immature conservatives.
    We also know that as one gets older, the brain, memory, and the ability to make decisions, weaken. Conservatives are just liberals with Alzheimers. See? I can play the partisan hack card, too. Try not to do that around here. You'll get chewed up real fast.

    5. Homosexuality is demonstrably harmful to the homosexual, both females and males. They have a much higher incidence of many negative behaviors, and circumstances. The list is extensive, but I suspect you might already know what they are, so can we please stipulate on this point? Given this to be demonstrably true, why would anyone want to promote homosexuality? Promotion of homosexuality will be the norm, through the public schools, if it is deemed gay marriage legal. You can count on it.
    Certain sexual BEHAVIORS can be dangerous. You don't seem to understand the difference between orientation and behavior. I have now clarified that and demonstrated that the point you made is invalid. You can thank me later.

    6. What's the upside of legalizing gay marriage? if you say it's the right thing to do, then I refer you to my authority of morality argument.
    That would not be my argument as there is no evidence to it. Kinda like your argument.

    Go ahead, convince me that gay marriage is the right thing to do. I'm all ears.

    Tim-
    For some reason, I doubt that. None of your points are accurate. Took me all of 10 minutes to invalidate all of them.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #323
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quick question how does one use quote tags? Are they BB code? I can't address you without being able to quote you, and to put it in full context.

    By the way, you don't know me.. The liberal comments are merely a jest, no real offense is meant.


    Tim-

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    CC, for short. You invalidated nothing. You simply redefined things, and once I figure out how to quote, I'll show you the error of your ways.

    Tim-

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    CC, for short. You invalidated nothing. You simply redefined things, and once I figure out how to quote, I'll show you the error of your ways

    test

    Ok, I figured out how to quote..

    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 07-13-10 at 06:56 PM.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    CC, for short. You invalidated nothing. You simply redefined things, and once I figure out how to quote, I'll show you the error of your ways.

    Tim-
    Hit reply with quote and if you want to break up the quote you do this. [ QUOTE ] at the start of it and [ /QUOTE] at the end of it minus the spaces.

  7. #327
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Quick question how does one use quote tags? Are they BB code? I can't address you without being able to quote you, and to put it in full context.

    By the way, you don't know me.. The liberal comments are merely a jest, no real offense is meant.


    Tim-
    Couple ways. Lower right hand corner of a post is a reply with quote button that will quote the entire post. I used it for this post. The other way is with a quote tag, <quote> and </quote>, except replace the <> with [].
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #328
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    That said, here it is:
    1. Homosexuality is not innate, nor is it immutable, it, by all definitions manifest itself as no more than a fetish, and although not necessarily terrible, nothing certainly worthy of regulation, or legislation. Certainly nothing that should be institutionalized, or forced upon an otherwise ill equipped mind.
    It appears to be a combination of environmental factors beyond the control of the individual, with a possible genetic link as well. While not "innate," it's not a conscious decision either. People don't choose to be gay any more than they choose to be straight. It's more than a fetish. People like you always make the mistake of assuming that homosexuality is entirely about sex.

    2. To my next point - By regulating, and legislating homosexual marriage, the State invariably endorses the behavior, and, by direct consequence, proponents of said behavior force it upon the society by way of the schools, and the workplace.
    And by banning it, they force homosexuals into a shunned, second class group. It is the State saying "Your love is not as good as the love of other people."

    3. The beef I have is in the schools aspect of it all. Consenting adults are free to make up their own minds, and if it stopped at the adult level, say a restriction on teaching the morality of homosexuality to kids, then I would be i favor of it. but we both know that will not happen. Much like a ban on the commercialization, or marketing of the product, like with alcohol, and tobacco to children, then by all means, have at er.
    This implies that homosexuality is wrong or negative somehow, but you have yet to demonstrate how this knowledge might harm children. Or anyone else for that matter.

    4. Children, in fact up until the age of roughly 20 have an immature pre frontal cortex. It means that they do not have the ability to reason the way adults do. It is why the military like em young, it is why sex with children, even consenting ones is prohibited. It is why most kids right up until they join the adult population, are generally liberal in their thinking. Adult liberals are simply immature conservatives.
    And conservatives are bigoted bible thumpers trying to force their own views onto the rest of the population. Generalizing is fun! Again I have to iterate that there is no evidence that knowledge about the existence of homosexuals, or endorsement of homosexuality, harms children in any way. In fact, studies show children of same-sex couples do exactly as well as children of straight couples in any reasonable way of measuring. That is to say, no better, and no worse.

    5. Homosexuality is demonstrably harmful to the homosexual, both females and males. They have a much higher incidence of many negative behaviors, and circumstances. The list is extensive, but I suspect you might already know what they are, so can we please stipulate on this point? Given this to be demonstrably true, why would anyone want to promote homosexuality? Promotion of homosexuality will be the norm, through the public schools, if it is deemed gay marriage legal. You can count on it.
    "I don't have any evidence to back up what I'm saying, but I'm hoping you'll just accept it at face value." No, actually, I'm not going to just take this "point" of yours. Provide some evidence of this or retract it.

    6. What's the upside of legalizing gay marriage? if you say it's the right thing to do, then I refer you to my authority of morality argument.
    The upside is upholding the very American value of not having religious beliefs thrust upon us, and equal treatment of all people.

    Go ahead, convince me that gay marriage is the right thing to do. I'm all ears.
    Two people who love eachother should be able to express that love in the form of marriage like anybody else. To say otherwise is to hold the belief that their love is not as real or as important as yours.

    Oh, this part - Also, your "very conservative" tag isn't sufficient. We need a tag for "Would prefer to reinstitute segregation." comment. Interesting, could you elaborate more on this?
    About the point you implied that desegregation had negative, unintended consequences.


    Edit: CC does it faster and better
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-13-10 at 07:18 PM.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #329
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Redress-
    This is incorrect. Homosexuality is an orientation, just like heterosexuality. Or are you saying that heterosexuality is a no more than a fetish?
    Is it now? If there was no heterosexuality, how could there be homosexuality? Sexuality, in humans, and all other species I know of, is for one single purpose; to procreate, and pass on one's DNA through the expression of genes. The fundamental goal of sex is to this end. Sexual orientation is word-speak, designed primarily to promote importance in the meaning of homosexual behavior - relative to the design of human procreative function. In short, designed to give standing to that which is less important, and undesirable in terms of any reasonable measure of humanity.

    So the state endorses alcohol and tobacco?
    Of course they do!

    So the state does not endorse alcohol and tobacco. You have some problem with telling kids that they are OK being what they are?
    I argue that kids aren't homosexual by design, or "born that way". In fact no study, not a single one proves it to be otherwise. So without evidence of said innate homosexuality, am I to conclude otherwise? Says who? You?

    Very good, you manage to not make any point, but be insulting anyways
    Well I am new, so a little joke here and there is nothing to be offended by, I assure you. Feel free to lob the softballs in my direction anytime you choose. I have thicker skin than that.

    I said that Homosexuality is demonstrably harmful to the homosexual, and you say:
    This is false. Feel free to try and document it, it should be fun.
    Are you kidding me? Lets see,

    1. Higher incidence of HIV, and almost every other sexually transmitted disease in males.
    2. Gay men have a 1 in 4 chance of contracting AIDS in their short lifetime.
    3. Gay men have a life expectancy of 50.
    4. Both gay men, and women have a much higher incidence of suicide.
    5. Both gay men and women have a disproportionate percentage level of drug abuse, and alcohol abuse.
    6. Both gay men and women have a much higher level of domestic abuse.
    7. 35% of children raised in gay households from birth identify as homosexual as adults, this compared to the national level of homosexuality at 4 - 6% correlates to the notion that homosexuality is "catchy".
    8. Both gay men, and women have a much higher incidence of psychological abnormalities as defined by the DSM.
    9. Both gay men, and women have many more sexual partners, compared to their heterosexual counter-parts.

    I can go on, but I feel you've gotten the point by now. So I ask again, why would you want to promote homosexuality?

    Gays increasingly are raising children. Marriage is the most stable type of environment to raise children. There are no logical arguments against gay marriage, and without some evidence of harm, should be allowed. Marriage promotes stable homes, which are good for society.
    Hehe, well, let's correct you here. Marriage between a man, and a woman is the best environment to raise healthy children. Marriage does promote stable homes, however not so much in the gay home. The average gay marriage (Taken from the 10 year study in the Netherlands) last 1.5 years, compared to the average heterosexual marriage lasting 22 years. No comparison, however it should be noted that in female gay marriages the statistic is higher, lasting 3.6 years.

    CC wrote -
    This is going to be easy. Watch
    Awesome, I'm glad you're enthusiastic, it is good for debate.

    1. Heterosexuality is not innate, nor is it immutable. Sexual orientation. ALL sexual orientations fall under the same category. Researchers believe that they are created through a combination of genetics/biology/biochemistry-hormones/environment.
    Really? Wow, what an epiphany? Sorry was being sarcastic. Ok, show me one, just one study by a researcher that concludes this? Couldn't you simply substitute sexual orientation with, oh I dunno, say the word "behavior", and be equally correct? Sort of like, preferring milk to water, or steak to chicken? LOL

    Your opinion that is is defined as a fetish is inaccurate. It is a sexual orientation. Please get your definitions correct.
    Oh, I assure you I have it correct.

    No, the state does not force it on anything. By legislating homosexual marriage, you are not required to marry a homosexual. The is no force nor endorcement. It's called regulation. Again, get your defintions correct.
    You appear ill-equipped to debate me on this subject. You thought process is bewildering?

    Further, the state DOES have reason to endorse marriage... all marriage. Plenty of reasons, all of which apply to both hetero and homosexual marriage
    Perhaps, however, if only for the way in which the consequence of gay marriage would wrought the society were limited, then I wouldn't be at all in opposition. I'm pretty sure I made that clear? My opposition to homosexuality isn't so much about homosexuality, it is in the way homosexuality manifest itself in a society that worries me. Namely how it is brought about, and to whom. I want my kids to live a long and healthy life, some of it I cannot control, but the things I can, I will. Legislating homosexual marriage is something I have the ability to fight, and I am.

    No morality should be taught in schools. Information should. Proving information does just that. Provides information
    Ah, if only that were the case my good man.. if only it were.

    We also know that as one gets older, the brain, memory, and the ability to make decisions, weaken. Conservatives are just liberals with Alzheimers. See? I can play the partisan hack card, too. Try not to do that around here. You'll get chewed up real fast.
    Chewed up.. LOL Ok.. Sure.

    Certain sexual BEHAVIORS can be dangerous. You don't seem to understand the difference between orientation and behavior. I have now clarified that and demonstrated that the point you made is invalid. You can thank me later.
    You did nothing of the sort. Your liberal mind is incapable of objectively realizing your position is inferior.

    That would not be my argument as there is no evidence to it. Kinda like your argument.
    So what is the upside?

    For some reason, I doubt that. None of your points are accurate. Took me all of 10 minutes to invalidate all of them.
    I see.. Well then I hope you won't object to me responding to anyone else that might disagree with me?


    Tim-

  10. #330
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Quick question how does one use quote tags? Are they BB code? I can't address you without being able to quote you, and to put it in full context.

    By the way, you don't know me.. The liberal comments are merely a jest, no real offense is meant.


    Tim-
    You're right. I don't know you. We have too many conservatives around here who make obnxious, innacurate comments like that. I tend to not let them go without a similarly snarky response, letting them know that their comments are obnoxious and inaccurate. I did put a after my comment, to let you know that my comment was also in jest. One's intelligence is not based on political ideology.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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