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Thread: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a state can clearly refuse to recognize gay marriage just as NYC or Chicago does not recognize my Ohio issued CCW permit

    Tauro is a very well respected judge-I suspect his opinion will be given much respect
    Actually, a proper interpretation of the full faith and credit clause makes it clear that CCW licenses are as transferrable as driver's licences.

    But, since the Second Amendment doesn't allow for licensing gun ownership, is it any surprise that the Full Faith and Credit clause is also ignored as gun rights are suppressed by tyrannical states across the nation?

    But, since marriages ARE covered under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, that means same-sex marriages are also covered. Which is why the federal courts are trying to avoid hearing such cases.

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records,
    and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general
    Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be
    proved, and the Effect thereof.
    It doesn't say a damn thing about one state not liking the public Act of the other state, it must be given "credit".

    period.

    It's what the Constitution says, unequivocably.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    You bet... as stated earlier, by your's truly, the Federal government has placed any number of restrictions upon the states through the establishment of standards... the list is endless. But federal standards on education, food and worker safety; the limitations upon the states power to influence the means of the individual to exercise their rights, sucession, etc...


    Notions that the US Legislature cannot establish Federal standards for marriage is ludicrous... Given that Marriage represents a contract and that the US Constitution requires that ALL STATES recognize contracts made in every state... it serves reason that the Federal government establish standards which comport with the sound principle and reject the addled minded sophistry of morally invalid special interests.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think what people are saying in regards to the polygamy thing is that the arguments that justify homosexual marriage would also justify polygamy. I agree that it bringing polygamy into things is a red herring and serves no purpose in regards to the gay marriage debate.
    Yes, that is their argument, and no, it is not accurate. Polygamy and homosexuality are very different things. One is what a person is, one is what a person does to start with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The federal law banning gay marriage is unconstitutional because it interferes with the right of a state to define the institution
    It ruled in favor of a state's right to define marriage, which means state's like mine who ban it have every right to do so.
    Well, no.

    The Federal government doesn't have the authority to define marriages in the states. That means the clods in Congress can't write a law saying "certain arrangements of biological plumbing are accepted for marriage, other combinations are not".

    The states don't have the authority to violate the Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. That means the clods in state legislatures can't write laws discriminating against some consenting adults while allowing identical legal arrangements between other consenting adults.

    Churches can do the irrational and the hate-filled and conduct marriage ceremonies only for those people they like. They're a business and it's supposed to be a free country.

    The state isn't a business and it's supposed to be a free country, so the state has no rational basis for prohibiting certain acts that it allows others.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes, that is their argument, and no, it is not accurate. Polygamy and homosexuality are very different things. One is what a person is, one is what a person does to start with.
    I agree, I wasn't saying that their argument is my argument though. I believe that polygamy and homosexuality are two different things and that the same logical arguments do not apply to both for obcious reasons.
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I agree, I wasn't saying that their argument is my argument though. I believe that polygamy and homosexuality are two different things and that the same logical arguments do not apply to both for obcious reasons.
    Holy ****, we find common ground on a topic we never agree on!
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Actually, a proper interpretation of the full faith and credit clause makes it clear that CCW licenses are as transferrable as driver's licences.

    But, since the Second Amendment doesn't allow for licensing gun ownership, is it any surprise that the Full Faith and Credit clause is also ignored as gun rights are suppressed by tyrannical states across the nation?

    But, since marriages ARE covered under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, that means same-sex marriages are also covered. Which is why the federal courts are trying to avoid hearing such cases.



    It doesn't say a damn thing about one state not liking the public Act of the other state, it must be given "credit".

    period.

    It's what the Constitution says, unequivocably.

    The relevant Constitutional issue is: Article I, section 10, clause 1. Stating that States must recognize contracts produced in other states. Where a state proclaims that the marriage contract exist sub-standard to that of other states, it burdens the other states to recognize the lower standard.

    But hey... this is just another example of the ideological left subverting sound cultural mores... it's part and parcel of the insurgency, not at all distinct from the recent arrest of Russian insurgents. My guess is that a fair portion of the Left represented on the internet debate forums are formal insurgents, with the balance being the informal variety which have been influenced by the former and their predecessors; many of which are presently holdin high office or settled into key bureaucratic offices.

    There's nothing particularly new here... Senator Joe McCarthy amongst many others warned us of this over half a century ago; with history having proven them to be absolutely correct.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban Is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Except that driving is not a right whereas the right to keep and bear, like the right to marry, are rights.
    There's a "right" to marry?

    What if the girl says "no".

    There's no "right" to marry. A marriage is typically a formal legal and/or religious recognition of the formation of a pair bond between consenting adults. In some primitive societies, such as Islam, a marriage can be a legal bond between a prophet of God and a nine year old girl. Thus, in some societies, the "right" to marriage is the "right" to rape.

    There is no "right" to marriage. Can't be, not when the term doesn't have a uniform definition and not when the concept isn't applied consistently anywhere.

    But....in the United States, a legal act in one state is, by the Constitution, valid in all other states and territories.

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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm going to say something, and I'm going to hope that the two of you both understand the level of honesty that I operate at enough to understand that I'm serious.

    I think that if SSM is legalized, failing to also legalize polygamy or group marriage would be discriminatory and hypocritical. I think at some point it will be recognized as discriminatory, whether that takes 2 years or 20.

    Is there evidence to demonstrate that adult-only polygamous marriage is a societal negative? Not that I know of. Would it be somewhat more complex legally? Yes, but that could be handled... there are legal complications in SSM that aren't as typically encountered in traditional marriage, namely custody issues for children that are genetically the product of one partner and an outsider by consent of the couple. If we can handle that some smart group of lawyers can come up with a legal structure to handle polygamy/group marriage.

    So many of the same arguments apply!

    How do you know polygamy isn't an orientation? Based on the number of people who have sex with more than one person at a time, one might argue that polyamory is an inborn trait in some substantial number of people.

    If it is wrong to deny two gay people who love each other the right to marry, why is it not wrong to deny four people who love each other the right to marry? You're depriving them of the right to file joint tax returns and be each other's legal next-of-kin.

    Just as some people associate homosexuality with pedophilia based on isolated incidents, you're associating polygamy with "marrying" underage girls based on a small sample of religious-extremists polygamists.

    To be frank, I consider a pro-SSM / Anti-Polygamy position to be hypocritical.
    I believe you are serious. You are also wrong. I have posted information in the past that demonstrates both how GM and polygamy are, in essence, different, and how polygamy does NOT yield any of the benefits that GM does. Now, though I do not adhere to the discriminatory aspect of the GM debate, in order for discrimination to be considered, both issues need to be similar. They are not. A sexual orientation is defined as "the direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same, opposite, or both sexes." Desiring more than one of any of these does not fit this definition. You may WANT to be with more than one, but that has nothing to do with which sex you are oriented towards. So, since these are completely different entities, allowing GM cannot be discriminatory towards those who want polygamy.

    As I have repeatedly said, the polygamy issue in the GM debate is a red herring. It is a distraction that anti-GMers bring in as a "the sky is falling" argument.

    I have a post that explains, more fully, the fallacy of the polygamy argument. I've posted it before. When I get home, I'll do it again.
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    Re: Federal Gay Marriage Ban is Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Has there been any research done into whether some human beings are inherently inclined (ie inborn orientation) to multiple partners? What did Kinsey have to say on that subject?

    Maybe polyamory isn't considered an orientation because it doesn't have the political power that the SSM movement does...
    Or maybe because sexual orientation refers to being oriented towards one, the other, or both sexes. Wanting more than one does not fit the criteria. Therefore, this is a completely seperate issue, as sexual orientation does not apply. As I said, nothing but a red herring... a "the sky is falling" issue.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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