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Thread: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

  1. #51
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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Again, I'm not saying that what transpired on either side was right. What the New Black Pather member said was wrong and dispicable. AG Holder not prosecuting these individuals (or atleast the one who utter the intimidating hate speech) to the fullest extent of the law wasn't right either, but when you look at the totality of the situation, does it really amount to a helluva whole lot to be all up in arms over?
    It's only a big deal if someone thinks laws were created to be applied equally regardless of race, creed, color or religion. It that's not something that is worth much - you're correct - much ado about nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    If it had been a massive crowd of Black Pather members standing outside the polls making hateful speeches, uttering hateful words I'd grant you this was something to truly get upset about. But it wasn't and it doesn't appear that anyone took these men seriously. So...?
    So the law only now applies to large crowds of people and not to individuals? I think not. [/quote]

    Whether or not anyone took them seriously is irrelevant. However, at least one person took it seriously as they recorded video of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    People who oppose Pres. Obama are more up in arms over this because of their particianship (and very likely in some cases racial biasness). It's not about equal justice. Let's just call it as it truly is. This issue has reached a fevor pitch because many believe Pres. Obama to be racist...more partical to Blacks and minorities than to whites. The way I see it, there's nothing wrong with being passionate about members of your race or other minority groups receiving "fair and equaly treatment and a standard of living" that has been denied them over the years. Of course, we're talking about the President here. So, that does make it different. Still, I can understand his position on racial injustice and unequality and support same as long as he is fair about it.
    This has nothing to do with Obama other than, it may be on Obama's suggestion that the DoJ dropped prosecution of this case - Obama is otherwise irrelevant to this story. Don't make this about something its not. This is about voter intimidation outside of a polling location. They broke the law. Both should have been prosecuted just as if they were KKK in full regalia with billie clubs - standing outside of the polling place... it's the same thing.

    Any deviation based on color, organiation, etc... is a racist tinged decision. While equal protection under the law was added with the 14th amendment, equal application of the law must also be accomplished NOT MATTER what occurred and I think you agree - they broke the law, but justice was not served and these types of errors by the DoJ further divide this country racially as it appears as though race was a motivation. This prompts you, a black man to say "justice was served" and me a white man "justice was absent". Go back 50 years and the direct reverse was occurring every day. How is continued racism 50 years after civil rights moving us as American's forward? It's not. I didn't own slaves; my family came from what is now Serbia - poor Germans who moved there at the turn of the 19th century were indenture servents to the Yugoslavians and Hungarians who wanted them out and who treated them as dirt. You're baggage and the baggage that is being trotted out by the injustice of this case only serves to divide us as Americans. You should reject it. You weren't a slave, you weren't oppressed (depending on your age) and you have the benefits of almost everything MLK dreamed of during his life. Why take steps backwards? Doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    For example, I have an Hispanic coworker who's very passionate about her people. But that doesn't make her a racist. It simply means she wants what's right and fair for her people and won't just standby when she feels they are being oppressed or treated unjustly. Is the perceived position by the President on racial inequality towards Blacks and other minority groups that different?
    Nothing wrong with passion, however when one identifies inequality in ANY manner, and then advocates it and calls it "justice", that's not doing the right thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, what would have been fair here?
    The DoJ should have criminally charged these two men and let the courts decide the verdict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    IMO, no weapons near polling places, a gag order when assembling within 50 feet of polling places at the next Presidential election (2012) and 30-days in jail (or 6 months probation from violating any civil ordinance equivalent to communicating a threat.) To me, that would have been fair.
    So I guess he can do the same thing in 2012. And the other guy? Nothing.

    Let's just say these guys were KKK members, and I'll apply your view to this, and the KKK members were in this locale in Philly --- intimidating black voters. Still okay with your application of what is fair - that this was "justice"? I wouldn't be.
    Last edited by Ockham; 07-08-10 at 01:39 PM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #52
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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Oh...BTW...did you get the Justice Departments concession as their reason to dropping the case? Dude promised to not hang out in front of polling places with a deadly weapon again...until 2012....The next presidential elections.
    LOL...Are you partically reading my post? I've mentioned that in each one (X3).

    Perhaps there were some old frail white folk that saw those menacing black folks spewing hate rhetoric and popping a club into their hand deecided not to vote. Does it matter? Voter intimidation is voter intimidation. You prosecute it and do your danmdest to ensure it never happens again, or you minimize it, excuse it and ensure that it does.
    I hear ya and in general I agree. That's why I stated that overall the actions by the New Black Panther party members were really not that different from those of the Klan where voter intimidation is concerned except that it has been proven many times over that the actions of Klansmen have denied Blacks (and some minorities) their right to vote whereas that doesn't appear to be the case here. Still, I agree with you; if you're going to prosecute one (group or individual) for hate speech and intimidation tactics at polling places you better prosecute them all equaly. In this case, I don't think AG Holder went far enough, but...

    Ockham,

    Does the above answer the latter portion of your question?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-08-10 at 01:43 PM.

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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    LOL...Are you partically reading my post? I've mentioned that in each one (X3).



    I hear ya and in general I agree. That's why I stated that overall the actions by the New Black Panther party members were really not that different from those of the Klan where voter intimidation is concerned except that it has been proven many times over that the actions of Klansmen have denied Blacks (and some minorities) their right to vote whereas that doesn't appear to be the case here. Still, I agree with you; if you're going to prosecute one (group or individual) for hate speech and intimidation tactics at polling places you better prosecute them all equaly. In this case, I don't think AG Holder went far enough, but...

    Ockham,

    Does the above answer the latter portion of your question?
    Maybe its just a matter of pointing it out for emphasis. "GOLLY...we already got him to agree to NOT DO IT AGAIN UNTIL 2012...what more can we ask? We think thats adequate..."

    Seriously??? Thats one of those "come on dude WTF" moments...

  4. #54
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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post

    In the grand scheme of things, I'd have to agree with him. Again, I understand how polarized this incident has become; whites in particular want "tit-for-tat" justice, but really how does this compare with the voting rights denied of African-Americans since before the 15th Amendement, the Civil Rights Act and the Voters Rights Act were all passed? Believe me, I understand where many whites (and Conservatives) are coming from because as an African-American, I've been on that side of racial injustice. But when you really take the racial and partician blinders off, what real harm has this small trio of racially bias individuals done other than communicating a threat and uttering hate speech?
    Simply being in front of a voting area, with a weapon (police night stick), waving it and banging it - while in a military style getup coupled with the hate speech is intimidation. The plea you identified was in a civil case, I'm stating this is and should have been a criminal case via the DoJ - which they denied. This has nothing to do with "tit for tat" it's about equal application of the law no matter the color of skin. The real harm you ask about - is a continued racial divide and now settiing up a reversal of the 1960's. Nothing good can come of this. You want to continue justifying it to yourself, that's your problem. The DoJ did the WRONG thing, and whether these people were Black Panthers, the KKK, or Neo-Nazi's ... all three should be prosecuted under the law, equally and vigorously, WITHOUT regard of color, creed, religion... etc.

    If you can't see that - you're the one with partisan blinders on wanting "tit for tat".
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    In this case, I don't think AG Holder went far enough, but...

    Ockham,

    Does the above answer the latter portion of your question?
    It does answer it. Thank you.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What other reason could there possibly be?



    It has nothing to do with being "high and mighty" but your demand for proof when the video is in front of you made it clear.
    It doesn't HAVE to be anything else. But the fact is that there is no hard evidence (letters, e-mails, recordings, anything tangible) to prove they dropped it for Political reasoning. I AGREE that it is highly suspicious and I AGREE that it probably is corrupt. But that STILL doesn't change the fact that all we have is one man's testimony. And I don't believe that the testimony of ONE MAN should be the final factor to pass judgement. If that were the case then it would be to easy in this world to condemn anyone for anything and prove them guilty.

  7. #57
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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozengale View Post
    It doesn't HAVE to be anything else. But the fact is that there is no hard evidence (letters, e-mails, recordings, anything tangible) to prove they dropped it for Political reasoning. I AGREE that it is highly suspicious and I AGREE that it probably is corrupt. But that STILL doesn't change the fact that all we have is one man's testimony. And I don't believe that the testimony of ONE MAN should be the final factor to pass judgement. If that were the case then it would be to easy in this world to condemn anyone for anything and prove them guilty.
    When it's obvious to the layman, this can only have negatie consequences. Whether those consequences are political, social, moral, legal, etc... all, none, or a mix - is the point. Watch the video, listen to the hate speech - it's easy to discern what's occurring and that the DoJ not prosecuting was wrong. There's a poll out on DP showing that.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #58
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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozengale View Post
    It doesn't HAVE to be anything else. But the fact is that there is no hard evidence (letters, e-mails, recordings, anything tangible) to prove they dropped it for Political reasoning. I AGREE that it is highly suspicious and I AGREE that it probably is corrupt. But that STILL doesn't change the fact that all we have is one man's testimony. And I don't believe that the testimony of ONE MAN should be the final factor to pass judgement. If that were the case then it would be to easy in this world to condemn anyone for anything and prove them guilty.
    But we don't just have one man's testimony. We have our own eyes and the law.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    But we don't just have one man's testimony. We have our own eyes and the law.
    Yes which is why you can INVESTIGATE the matter. But I hate to think of a world where one can be condemned by just the hearsay of one man.

    And Ockham just because it seems "obvious" doesn't mean that it is the Truth. Once again I would hate to live in a world where just because it's possible to draw an "obvious" conclusion and they common man agrees that's enough to condemn them. I would hope you know that we can't make forgone conclusions when we don't know everything that happened.

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    Re: Ex-Official Accuses Justice Department of Racial Bias in Black Panther Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozengale View Post
    Yes which is why you can INVESTIGATE the matter. But I hate to think of a world where one can be condemned by just the hearsay of one man.

    And Ockham just because it seems "obvious" doesn't mean that it is the Truth. Once again I would hate to live in a world where just because it's possible to draw an "obvious" conclusion and they common man agrees that's enough to condemn them. I would hope you know that we can't make forgone conclusions when we don't know everything that happened.
    Oh for God's sake.

    So if you have video if a man robbing a grocery store at gunpoint by your own argument you can't conclude that the DA in the case has a solid convinction at hand?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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