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Thread: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

  1. #101
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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Little tip in debate. You actually bring your evidence with you. You don't claim its in some link then run away.
    Little tip in debate. Don't accuse someone of using a non-verifable link when you didn't even bother to:
    - click the link
    - check to see if it was verifable (which I clearly demonstrated it was above since you are too lazy or pathetic to click a link)
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Finally. Now I get to destroy your claims by giving you the real facts about the "golden age" of the Middle East.

    I do love how your only evidence is a summary of someone else's opinion but I expected no less from you.
    Mine is a legitimate book from an actual author with a FIRST and LAST name who attended college. The one I quote below I will show why it is not a:
    - legitimate source
    - not verifiable
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    But in fact, much of the most common claims about the great achievements of Islamic culture have been exaggerated, often for quite transparent apologetic motives. The astrolabe was developed, if not perfected, long before Muhammad was born. The zero, which is often attributed to Muslims, and what we know today as "Arabic numerals" did not originate in Arabia, but in pre-Islamic India. Aristotle's work was preserved in Arabic not initially by Muslims at all, but by Christians such as the fifth century priest Probus of Antioch, who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic-speaking world. Another Christian, Huneyn ibn-Ishaq (809-873), translated many works by Aristotle, Galen, Plato and Hippocrates into Syriac. His son then translated them into Arabic. The Syrian Christian Yahya ibn 'Adi (893-974) also translated works of philosophy into Arabic, and wrote one of his own, The Reformation of Morals. His student, another Christian named Abu 'Ali 'Isa ibn Zur'a (943-1008), also translated Aristotle and others from Syriac into Arabic. The first Arabic-language medical treatise was written by a Christian priest and translated into Arabic by a Jewish doctor in 683. The first hospital was founded in Baghdad during the Abbasid caliphate -- not by a Muslim, but a Nestorian Christian. A pioneering medical school was founded at Gundeshapur in Persia -- by Assyrian Christians.

    The point here is simply that the great achievements of Islamic culture are being exaggerated for political and apologetic reasons today. For this sort of thing to go on at jihad-justifying Islamic websites is one thing, but an academic should know better. Emphasis on "should."

    If anyone makes Dr. Adamson's lecture and he takes questions, these would be some facts that one might politely and respectfully ask him about.


    Breaking news: the Muslims saved civilization! - Jihad Watch
    First, your pathetic source is Jihad Watch. This would be like me using ElectronicIntifada as a source. No way is your source credible or legitimate. It does not even cite any secondary sources it used to create the article, LIKE MY BOOK DOES. Next, your author is Robert Spencer. Come back when you can use a credible, objective source, who does not write material with an obvious agenda. Jihad Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    See these are real dates, real people and real facts. Not summaries by another author. Go ahead, try and recover from that beat down. I'll bet you had no clue who those people were. You were so locked into your fantasy about the great Middle East Golden Age you had no idea where they really got their ideas or should I say stole them from
    Except they have no citations and are written by someone who did not attend an accreditted institute of education. Of course texmaster would use a non-objective source and think it is credible (even though it has no citations to the sources used to obtain the "information" in the article).

    [QUOTE=texmaster;1058844146]
    Now watch carefully as a real debater destroys your pitiful attempts at justification for blaming Europe for the inadequacy of the Middle East.

    British Mandate of Palestine 1920–1948

    French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon 1920–1946

    British Mandate of Mesopotamia 1920–1932

    "Golden Age" of Middle East:

    Now I'll be real nice here and give you an extra 400 years even though its factually incorrect 750 to 1500 A.D

    First "Mandate" you cited: 1920

    Thats 420 YEARS of NOTHING. Where is the European onslaught that kept Islamic nations back in the Middle East all this time? Where are they Degreez?
    [QUOTE=texmaster;1058844146]
    Seeing as how in that time period Arabs were not ruling over themselves, so you absolutely have no point.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    As usual, your arguments are so pathetic you don't even bother to research your own arguments before embarrassing yourself.
    This coming from the poster that still remains ignorant of history. This coming from a poster who uses JihadWatch as a source, but disregards a book as a source because it doesn't fit his bias. You are the definition of pathetic.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Do you blame the Europeans even today for the pitiful poor in the middle east? You are a one trick pony. Short on actually thinking about your facts and huge on emotional fallacies.
    The only one who has engaged in any fallacies here is you.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Once again you fail to read your own article. NO WHERE in any of that BS you cited does it even discuss weapons. Am I supposed to be shocked that a country from far away used local people to fight on their behalf? Have you ever read any history on warfare? Mercenaries have been used throughout history for thousands of years. How can you not be aware of such basic historical knowledge?

    You claimed this proved the British did not have superior weapons. WHERE IS THAT PROOF? Where is the discussion of the weapons? Don't worry, I'll provide it and show you how sad your claims really are.

    One more thing. Citing "foreign imperialism" is just another excuse for someone lacking superior weaponry. Your own works don't back your ridiculous claims.

    The real reason the Ottoman's LOST world war one? Superior firepower.
    Reading comprehension fail? You're posting as if I am defending the Ottoman Empire. What you choose to remain ignorant of, is that Arabs helped the British expel Ottoman rule. What you fail to acknowledge is that Arabs were promised independence if they helped the British in overthrowing the Ottoman Empire. What you are too slow to realize is that it was Allenby's and Hussein's forces that fought the Ottomans. But please, continue misinterpretating posts and using JihadWatch. ROFLMAO
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You're damn right. Too bad you don't understand basic history.

    Um, YEAH! LOL
    I don't understand basic history? LOL. What you posted above is a clear demonstration of a kid who does not know one bit about history.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Sigh. Your lack of understanding basic history just grows and grows.

    Let's take the Germans and Poland for just a second. How about the invasion of Poland?

    Polish lancers on horseback were slaughtered as they bravely, but ineffectually, charged columns of German tanks.

    SUPERIOR FIREPOWER. The Polish didn't have tanks. It doesn't matter if they were given 10 years to prepare, the Germans had the superior technology.

    How about France?

    In 1940 it defeated the French army, which had the necessary weapons (tanks, aircraft, radio), but of lesser quality, and it didn't know how to use it because it totally neglected mobile warfare after World War 1

    Blitzkrieg

    So once again your incredible ignorance of basic history and the use of superior firepower to win wars is staggering.
    Sigh... This is just embarrassing for you. I feel like I am teaching a 14 year old middle school student who's been held back once too often. You are equating being more advanced militarily with being more advanced as a civilization. They are not the same thing, and it is pathetic for you to even suggest they are. America is more advanced militarily than Japan. Japan is more advanced technologically. That doesn't automatically make one more advanced as a civilization, despite what your puny brain may think. America is more advanced militarily than Russia, but would never win a conventional war against Russia. Same with China and India.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    LOL You deny women are still treated as property in Islamic countries in the middle east?
    No, I'm merely point out your straw man logical fallacy as if you using deflection is somehow something I had said.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Quiz time. How many Muslim Countries in the middle East or even next door have equal rights for men and women? ONE. Turkey.
    Turkey isn't a Muslim country boy genius. It is a secular country. What's hilarious is Pakistan has had a woman President before America has.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Your incredible lack of basic knowledge continues to amaze.
    You have no idea what knowledge is.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    ah yes the classic tactic of the defeated. Pretend to falsely classify your opponent's argument when you can't argue the point.
    That's exactly what you've been doing throughout this entire thread. It's very elementary texmaster.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You were the one who made the argument Islam has greatly improved the treatment of women in Arabia and you cited babies are no longer being buried alive while ignoring the fact that women are still not treated as equals and are even allowed to be beaten according to certain clerics who cite Islamic jurisprudence
    Fixed. The part I underlined is where you engaged in another logical fallacy. Stop making this so easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    LOL a Beck reference? Now I know you are in trouble. There is no interpretation. There is what you present and what you ignore. You make your own grave.
    What you read is your interpretation. Your interpretation contradicts what I actually said. Whether accidental or on purpose, you misrepresent my statements.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Not only have I demolished your generalization from one book I've cited exactly where the Muslim "golden age" came from and who gave them the knowledge. Something you could never do.
    You disregarded my source which you were too lazy to click and ended up using YouTube videos and JihadWatch as sources. Great job! I'm sure my 8 year old nephew could do the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Then I destroyed your pathetic excuse for trying to blame Europe for the Middle East living in the Dark Ages some 420 years after this supposed "golden age" was to have happened.
    Another misinterpretation above. You really have to brush up on proper reading comprehension. I suggest taking English classes over from junior high. It's obvious you must have failed them and dropped out of school.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    The Middle East was colonized because it lacked the superior knowledge and technology. Your sad attempts to equate the 1920s as an excuse for this inability to modernize despite being next door to it is really amazing.
    ROFL. So you are admitting foreign imperialism is the reason for Middle East colonization. I knew it would only take time for you to say something truthful.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    And then my personal favorite your inability to understand how the Polish and France were conquered or even what weaponry they had and didn't have. Hell, your understanding of how World War II was won is hysterical alone.
    It had more to do with imbeciles like Chamberlain using appeasement to keep Hitler satisfied. All the way disregarded treaties and alliances made with nations that were basically given to Nazi Germany.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    *hint* it had something to do with a big boom. Google that in google books
    You mean America's use of state terrorism against the Japanese? All to get the Emperor to agree to an unconditional surrender, which he did not end up doing. Truman was an idiot and a war criminal. Only you would praise something like that.

  2. #102
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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Which begs the question:
    Begging the question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    If "Islamic Contributions" brought Europe out of the Dark Ages, why did the lands dominated by Islam STAY in the Dark Ages to this very day?
    This was posted above. Foreign imperialism and colonization.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Increased trade, growing population, and technical innovation, and even the Black Death are all reasons why Europe moved past the Dark Ages and the Medieval period to eventually enjoy a renaissance and the birth of the modern world.
    And what brought this on? Point proven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Islam has no document comparable to the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, or the US Constitution.
    The Umari treaty. The treaty of Hudaibiyah. The Declaration of Independence is a laughable document for you to use. "All men are created equal"... except for the Africans we enslaved and brought over to be our "workers".
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Islam has no acheivement comparable to the printing press, the steam engine, or the geared clock (which, interestingly, was anticipated by the startlingly complex Anti-Kythera Mechanism).
    That's because you are ignorant of Islamic achievements. How about the Windmill? Surgical instruments still used today? Central heating? The first University? The first pharamacies? The use of alcohol as an antiseptic? Cough medicine? The adhesive bandage? The scientific method?

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Antikythera is one word, the artefact is named after the Greek island group in which it was found. Anti-Kythera with a hyphen is meaningless, unless one is opposed or counter to an island.
    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

    "We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation." ..François-Marie Arouet. French philosopher. 1694 - 1778.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    What a bunch of bullcrap. So it was actually the West that critically expanded on Algebra? Most those stars that have Arabic names? Really invented by the West. Same with the scientific method. The West invented it, forgot about it, then somehow relearned it. Ibn Haytham's Book of Optics was actually written by someone in the West.
    Wow the Muslims translated Greek discovered and Greek named stars into Arabic. Woopy.

    Yeah, Western imperialism and colonialism had nothing to do with that...
    Um no Islamic Imperialism and Colonialism actually had to do with that.

    You probably have no idea that up until the British invasion of India, India was the de fact richest country in the world. Now look at it.
    You probably have no idea that the Muslim invasion of India resulted in the greatest genocide in history until Hitler and Stalin.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-08-10 at 10:44 PM.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Little tip in debate. Don't accuse someone of using a non-verifable link when you didn't even bother to:
    - click the link
    - check to see if it was verifable (which I clearly demonstrated it was above since you are too lazy or pathetic to click a link)

    Mine is a legitimate book from an actual author with a FIRST and LAST name who attended college. The one I quote below I will show why it is not a:
    - legitimate source
    - not verifiable
    Yes we know, Islam is responsible for everything from Algebra, to Astronomy, to Coinage, I mean it's not as if these things had been discovered a thousand years before Mohammad started having hallucinations or anything, it's not as if cultural and scientific centers of the world for more than a millenium; such as, Persia, India, and Constantinople fell into progressive atrophy within centuries of being conquered by the Arabs.
    You mean America's use of state terrorism against the Japanese?
    Don't use terms which you don't understand, state terror is the use of terrorism against a governments own populace not against outside actors.

    All to get the Emperor to agree to an unconditional surrender, which he did not end up doing. Truman was an idiot and a war criminal. Only you would praise something like that.
    A) The Japanese wanted a conditional surrender that would have allowed not just the emperor to stay in power but the militarists to stay in power as well.

    B) Japan was engaged in total war, under the terms of total war there are no civilians within the nation-state which is engaged in it.

    C) Unless you are going to argue that carpet bombing and firebombing were war crimes during the laws of war at the time then you have no basis on which to claim that the use of nuclear weapons was a war crime at the time.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Unfortunately, I am slowing coming to agree with this point.
    If you don't consider an ideology in which the mainstream views held by all 5 major sects are that homosexuality and apostasy are not only crimes but capital offenses then that says more about you than it does about people who do consider it an enemy.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Little tip in debate. Don't accuse someone of using a non-verifable link when you didn't even bother to:
    - click the link
    - check to see if it was verifable
    Its not my job to verify your links. Its your job to present the evidence. This is debate 101 for God's sake. Take a course and try to catch up.

    Mine is a legitimate book from an actual author with a FIRST and LAST name who attended college.
    I don't care if he attended 20 colleges. His research your quoted was a summary. ZERO proof or evidence of how Muslims did it on their own.

    The one I quote below I will show why it is not a:
    - legitimate source
    - not verifiable

    First, your pathetic source is Jihad Watch. This would be like me using ElectronicIntifada as a source. No way is your source credible or legitimate. It does not even cite any secondary sources it used to create the article, LIKE MY BOOK DOES. Next, your author is Robert Spencer. Come back when you can use a credible, objective source, who does not write material with an obvious agenda. Jihad Watch
    I didn't think you could debate the facts. If you are going to attack the source don't cower behind a label. Attack the evidence presented.

    Except they have no citations and are written by someone who did not attend an accreditted institute of education. Of course texmaster would use a non-objective source and think it is credible (even though it has no citations to the sources used to obtain the "information" in the article).
    hahahaha You show us all where they lied and we will listen. Until then as usual you have nothing to base your worthless theories on.

    Seeing as how in that time period Arabs were not ruling over themselves, so you absolutely have no point.
    Once again I have to embarrass your pathetic knowledge of the very region you take pride in.

    So the Arabs were not ruling themselves between 1500 and your pathetic excuse for an argument in 1920.

    First Saudi State (1744-1818)
    The First Saudi State was established in the year 1744 (1157 A.H.) when Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab and Prince Muhammad ibn Saud formed an alliance to establish a religious & political sovereignty determined to cleanse the Arabian Peninsula of perceived heretical practices and deviations from orthodox Islam. It collapsed as a result of the Ottoman-Saudi war.
    [edit] Second Saudi State (1824-1891)

    After a rebuilding period following the ending of the First Saudi State, the House of Saud returned to power in the Second Saudi State in 1824. The state lasted until 1891 when it succumbed to the Al Rashid dynasty of Ha'il. Rashidi Arabia endured from 1891-1902, when Ibn Saud reconquered Riyadh, the first of a series of conquests leading to the creation of the modern nation state of Saudi Arabia in 1932.


    Whoops! Caught in another lie eh Degreez? Where are all the horrible European rulers stifling the free spirit of the Middle East? Well lets look at Iran shall we? Surly the evil Europeans must have ruled them in that 420 years of NOTHING right?

    Iran:

    Safavid Dynasty

    1501-1524 -- Shah Ismail I united all of Persia under Iranian leadership after some nine centuries of foreign or fragmented rule. Being a Shi'ite, he declared Shi'ism as the state religion and converted virtually all of Persia and some surrounding areas under his control from Sunnism to Shi'ism.Kerman Mosque Shi'ism became a medium for the Persians to differentiate themselves from the rest of the Islamic world, in particular from the Sunni Ottomans. To ensure its continuation as the state religion, the Safavid kings in general supported the Shi'ite clergy.

    1587-1629 -- The reign of Shah Abbas the Great marked the pinnacle of the Safavid dynasty. He developed a disciplined standing army and defeated the Ottomans. In 1598, he chose Isfahan as his capital. A strong supporter of the arts, especially architecture, he adorned Isfahan with some of the finest Islamic monuments in the world. He built a number of mosques, schools, bridges and a major bazaar. During his reign, Persian craftsmen and artists excelled in creating fine silks, cloths, porcelain, metalwork, calligraphy, miniatures and carpets.

    1501-1722 -- The two contemporary Islamic rivals of the Safavids, the Ottomans in Anatolia and the Mughals in India, relied on Persian artisans and poets for much of their arts and literature. Persian was the language of choice in both of their courts. This preference is evident from their poems and miniature paintings whose texts were almost exclusively written in Persian. Persian influence was especially prevalent in India, where it was also the cultural and administrative language; it remained so until the colonization of India by the British. The Taj Mahal's principle architect was a Persian named Ustad Isad and its architectural style was significantly influenced by Persian designs.

    1722 -- Mahmoud Khan, an Afghan chieftain and a vassal of the Safavids, attacked Persia and captured Isfahan with virtually no resistance, thus ending the Safavid dynasty.

    Mashad Mosque1729-1747 -- Nader Shah, an officer of the Safavids, was able to expel the Afghans and reunite the country. He was a brilliant military strategist, defeating the Ottomans, Russians, Indians and various local tribes. In his invasion of Mughal India, Nader Shah captured two of the world's greatest diamonds, the Sea of Light (now in Iran) & the Mountain of Light (now part of the British Crown Jewels). Nader Shah became increasingly paranoid and was assassinated by his own guardsmen. After his death, his great military machine collapsed.

    1747-1779 -- Karim Khan Zand gained control of central and southern parts of Iran. He was a compassionate ruler who refused to assume the title of Shah and referred to himself as the Representative of the People. He fought extensively with a rival tribe, the Qajars. After Karim Khan Zand's death in 1779, Aqa Mohammad Khan Qajar gradually vanquished the Zands and established the Qajar dynasty.

    Qajar Dynasty

    1795 -- Although the Qajars succeeded in reuniting the country, they were generally weak and corrupt rulers. The economic and military gap between Iran and the West widened considerably under their reign - especially in light of the Industrial Revolution that was taking place in the West. However, the Qajar period also enjoyed a high degree of artistic excellence, producing some of Iran's finest paintings, tileworks and architectural monuments.

    1813 & 1828 -- European imperialism resulted in English and Russian penetration in Iranian affairs. The Qajars lost the Caucasus (present day Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan) to the RussiansQajar in two separate treaties: the Gulistan in 1813 and the Turkmanchay in 1828. As a result of the 1828 treaty, the Qajars were forced to enact the "Capitulation" law, exempting all foreign citizens from Iranian jurisdiction. This law deeply
    humiliated the Iranian people.

    1851 minister of the Qajars.

    1851-1906 -- The Qajars lost central Asian provinces to the Russians and were forced to give up all claims on Afghanistan to the British. These two European powers dominated Iran's trade and manipulated its internal politics. The Qajars and influential members of their court were bribed to sell many valuable concessions to the British, such as the Tobacco Concession which triggered a massive popular uprising.

    1906 -- Discontent with Qajar corruption and mismanagement led to the Constitutional Revolution and the establishment of Iran's first parliament or Majles. The constitutional aspirations for a limited monarchy were never to be fully realized. Although Iran never became an actual colony of imperial powers, in 1907 it was divided into two spheres of influence. The north was controlled by Russia and the south and the east by Britain. By the end of WW I, Iran was plunged into a state of political, social and economic chaos.

    1921 -- Reza Khan, an officer in the army, staged a coup. Initially the minister of war and then the prime minister, in 1925 Reza Khan decided to become the Shah himself. Although Reza Khan's initial objective was to become the president of a republic, the clergy, fearing a diminished role in a republic, persuaded him to become the Shah.[/i]

    From Ancient Persia to Contemporary Iran - History of Iran Timeline


    Gee look at that. ZERO ruling by any European power. The more you lie about history the easier this becomes.

    This coming from the poster that still remains ignorant of history. This coming from a poster who uses JihadWatch as a source, but disregards a book as a source because it doesn't fit his bias. You are the definition of pathetic.
    I never disregarded the source. I attacked the evidence which was NOTHING. You quoted a generalization of what the author believed. No names. No dates, no achievements. Unlike my source that did name names, dates and lack of achievement by the Middle East. All too easy

    Reading comprehension fail?
    Yes you are but its too fun to stop.

    You're posting as if I am defending the Ottoman Empire.
    You are defending Islamic rule and blaming the West for their inability to grow as a civilization in technology and power.

    What you choose to remain ignorant of, is that Arabs helped the British expel Ottoman rule. What you fail to acknowledge is that Arabs were promised independence if they helped the British in overthrowing the Ottoman Empire. What you are too slow to realize is that it was Allenby's and Hussein's forces that fought the Ottomans. But please, continue misinterpretating posts and using JihadWatch. ROFLMAO
    Hahahaha Still trashing JihadWatch but running away from their facts. Typical Degreez. Run from addressing the facts because you can't debate them.

    And so the hell what if Arabs helped? What is your point? As I said, mercenaries were used all throughout history. Its no surprise they were used then either. Would you please stick to an argument for once instead of jumping around every time you are defeated?

    I see you ducked my weapons comparison between the British and the Ottoman Empire. THAT was the reason for victory. Pretending the Arabs were the reason is truly pathetic. Did they help? Sure. But they were NEVER the primary reason the Ottoman Empire lost. It came down to superior firepower as it almost always does.

    I don't understand basic history? LOL
    Yes. You do not understand basic history and you keep repeating it over and over again.

    What you posted above is a clear demonstration of a kid who does not know one bit about history.
    Only someone with zero lack of understanding basic history would pretend superior firepower isn't a key in conquest and thats exactly what you did when you claimed the Polish and the French were simply defeated because of surprised. Its one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard anyone make about World War II.

    Sigh... This is just embarrassing for you. I feel like I am teaching a 14 year old middle school student who's been held back once too often. You are equating being more advanced militarily with being more advanced as a civilization. They are not the same thing, and it is pathetic for you to even suggest they are. America is more advanced militarily than Japan. Japan is more advanced technologically. That doesn't automatically make one more advanced as a civilization, despite what your puny brain may think. America is more advanced militarily than Russia, but would never win a conventional war against Russia. Same with China and India.
    LOL We are talking about CONQUEST and WAR. Spreading your territory. If you actually paid attention to the argument this began when you blamed Europe for stifling Muslim progress (which I've already exposed as a complete lie) by growing their power by beginning colonies. Those colonies would NEVER have advanced if they did not have superior technology. How can you be so blind you can't even understand basic history?

    And if the US attacked Japan today they would be conquered again because they lack the amount of superior firepower that the US has. Its unbelievable you are this ignorant about basic concepts of war and expansion.

    No, I'm merely point out your straw man logical fallacy as if you using deflection is somehow something I had said.
    What did I deflect? Point it out. Lets see it. I attacked your pathetic attempts at justifying a better treatment of women while ignoring the Islamic practices to keep women subordinate and allowing men to strike them. That isn't a logical fallacy its exposing massive hypocrisy created by you.

    Con't
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Turkey isn't a Muslim country boy genius. It is a secular country. What's hilarious is Pakistan has had a woman President before America has.
    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA Now this is amusing. Lets look at the religious demograpohics in Turkey

    Religion: Muslim 99.8% (mostly Sunni), other 0.2% (mostly Christians and Jews)

    Turkey - Quick facts, statistics and cultural notes

    How can you be this ignorant? Seriously. How is it possible?

    Now to your pathetic excuse that Turkey is not a Muslim country despite the laughable demographics I've already displayed there is even more evidence:

    The exercise in reforming Islamic jurisprudence, sponsored by the modernising and mildly Islamic government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the prime minister, is being seen as an iconoclastic campaign to establish a 21st century form of Islam, fusing Muslim beliefs and tradition with European and western philosophical methods and principles.

    The result, say experts following the ambitious experiment, could be to diminish Muslim discrimination against women, banish some of the brutal penalties associated with Islamic law, such as stoning and amputation, and redefine Islam as a modern, dynamic force in the large country that pivots between east and west, leaning into the Middle East while aspiring to join the European Union.


    This was 2008! Not 50 years ago, 2008. Turkey still has a long way to go before they are truly separated Islam and the law but whats so laughable is you are attacking the ONLY Islamic country that has women's rights! LOL

    And lets look at Pakistan and the rights of women:


    Mukhtar Mai, a leading Pakistani women's rights advocate, gained fame for the way she courageously stood up to traditions that violated her human rights. Online, one can find plenty of information about her - her gang rape, her recent marriage, her strides for women's rights and education, and the harassment that she has faced from Pakistani government officials. While her past is now known around the globe, her future, in light of the Multan Electric Power Company's June 11 raid on the Mukhtar Women's Welfare Organization, remains uncertain. With the exception of coverage by Nicholas Kristof's blog ("A Hero's Ordeal in Pakistan"), Ms. Mai's current dire situation in Pakistan is not well-known. The latest harassment towards Ms. Mai, which within the context of previous incidents was obviously not an isolated event, must mobilize the public to demand action from the Pakistani government.

    On June 11, 2009, the Multan Electric Power Company raided the MMWWO in Meerwala, Pakistan, and disconnected all electricity to the grounds, falsely accusing the organization of stealing electricity despite records proving they have paid all bills in full
    . MMWWO and hundreds of families in the surrounding area were without power for several days. Today, while the power to the surrounding area has been restored, the MMWWO grounds, which house the Mukhtar Mai Girls Model School, Women's Resource Centre, and Shelter Home for battered women (whose premises was raided despite the fact that men are strictly prohibited), are still enduring blistering temperatures. According to MMWWWO employees who were witnesses, the power company officials claimed that the raid was ordered by Abdul Qayyum Jatoi, the Federal Minister for Defense Production. This raid has significantly hindered the ability of Ms. Mai's organization to carry out its important human rights work, providing services for vulnerable women, girls and boys.

    In 2002, Mukhtar Mai was gang-raped on orders of a traditional village council as punishment for acts allegedly committed by her younger brother. Instead of suffering in silence, Ms. Mai fought back and testified in a rape case against her attackers and is now a leading Pakistani women's rights activist. The case is now before the Supreme Court after a lower court granted the convicted men's appeal. Hearings for the supreme Court case have repeatedly been delayed, but her attackers remain imprisoned and her case is pending.

    The June 11 incident is only the latest in a series of harassing incidents carried out by government officials to dissuade Ms. Mai from seeking accountability for past crimes and carrying out her work. Throughout the court proceedings, Ms. Mai has faced harassment by government officials, most notably by Minister Jatoi. In 2006, he visited Ms. Mai to ask her to reach a compromise with her attackers. In 2008, he again pressured Ms. Mai to drop the charges against her attackers, allegedly insisting that if she proceeded with the case, he would ensure a verdict in favor of her attackers. Most recently, in February 2009, Minister Jatoi's associates engaged in a media campaign against Ms. Mai, stating that her attackers are innocent and that the entire case is a "fraud" and a "western agenda."


    Human Rights First: Women's Rights in Pakistan: Descending into Darkness

    Once again the lies you spew are exposed to the truth.

    And what happened to that woman president who was the wife of the president before she ran? Oh thats right, SHE WAS ASSASSINATED. LOL Only you would be ignorant enough to put up Pakistan as a beacon for women's rights.

    You have no idea what knowledge is.
    I know you lack it in ways that makes it almost incomprehensible.

    That's exactly what you've been doing throughout this entire thread. It's very elementary texmaster.
    And look at all those examples you put up to back your claim up. Oh wait, never mind lol Typical Degreez

    Fixed. The part I underlined is where you engaged in another logical fallacy. Stop making this so easy.
    hahaha Typical degreez. Still can't debate the facts. You were boneheaded enough to try and defend w omen's rights under Islamic rule. All I did was point out the massive hypocrisy you showed by failing to address the w omen's rights issues in the same region.

    You have only yourself to blame for your lack of knowledge.

    What you read is your interpretation. Your interpretation contradicts what I actually said. Whether accidental or on purpose, you misrepresent my statements.
    You keep claiming this then fail to produce your own. Another cowardly tactic but predictable.

    You disregarded my source which you were too lazy to click and ended up using YouTube videos and JihadWatch as sources. Great job! I'm sure my 8 year old nephew could do the same.
    I hope your 8 year only nephew doesn't point to a book claiming its in there then when pushed for the evidence can only point to a general claim without a shred of evidence to back it up. That was your mistake, one of so many others.

    Another misinterpretation above. You really have to brush up on proper reading comprehension. I suggest taking English classes over from junior high. It's obvious you must have failed them and dropped out of school.
    I understand you can't debate the lack of progress during that time and every time you duck it you only make my point stronger. Thanks for that

    ROFL. So you are admitting foreign imperialism is the reason for Middle East colonization. I knew it would only take time for you to say something truthful.
    Oh absolutely. But the TIME LINE doesn't match your claim that Europe held back the Middle East. As I proved with just 2 examples if Iran and Saudi Arabia, Europe never ruled the Middle east and at the very best had some colonies here and there but never ruled it as a whole. That was dominated by Arabs and Islam. Your arguemnt blaming Europe was an Epic Failure as it was predicted to be.

    It had more to do with imbeciles like Chamberlain using appeasement to keep Hitler satisfied.
    LOL Changing your argument? Color me shocked! hahaha

    All the way disregarded treaties and alliances made with nations that were basically given to Nazi Germany.
    As I proved, Germany conquered because their weapons were supreior. Your incredible lack of basic knowledge to even knowing that the Polish fought tanks on horseback shows you need to attend history with your 8 year only nephew. You obviously missed a great deal in history class.

    You mean America's use of state terrorism against the Japanese? All to get the Emperor to agree to an unconditional surrender, which he did not end up doing. Truman was an idiot and a war criminal. Only you would praise something like that.
    Now you are exposed for what you are. A hater of America. Only a hater like yourself would chastise the US for ending the war with Japan instead of costing millions of lives in a ground attack.

    But again its no surprise to me. You've demonstrated that you not only hate America, you don't have a clue how the Nazis defeated Poland and France but the real kicker is blaming Europe for the lack of progress in the Middle East despite ZERO Euopean rule for hundreds of years.

    Your entire argument was a joke. Spawned from hatred of the US and Europe and it was a pleasure destroying it. Come back anytime
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-09-10 at 12:25 AM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question]
    That's because you are ignorant of Islamic achievements. How about the Windmill?
    Heron of Alexandria. Improved on by a Persian not an Arab.

    Surgical instruments still used today?
    That would be the Romans who invented nearly every non-mechanical surgical instrument we use to day.

    Central heating?
    Again that would be the Romans who invented the Hypocaust.

    The first University?
    The University of Constantinople founded in 425 AD? Ya that was founded by the Byzantines.

    The first pharamacies?
    Then why is Pharmacy a Greek word? The Sushruta Samhita was taken by the Arabs after they conquered India throuugh the largest genocide the world had seen until Hitler. Christ their is still a sign on a tripod for a Pharmacy in Turkey which dates back to 400 BC not to mention Chinese Pharmacy dating to well before Christ.

    The use of alcohol as an antiseptic?
    Romans were using antispetics before Mohammad was even born.

    Cough medicine?
    Prove it.

    The adhesive bandage?
    Again prove it.

    The scientific method?
    Aristotle.

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