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Thread: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Irrational distrust and hatred of a group of people based on the actions of a few. American conservatives literally seem to think Islam is an enemy.
    Unfortunately, I am slowing coming to agree with this point.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Still quoting books no one can verify. Typical Degreez.
    No one can verify? I provided the link to the book. Do you want the ISBN number? The quoted text is provided online by Google Books. I love how you completely disregarded everything else I said, including the creation of the scientific method. It's obvious you have no actual rebuttal, and didn't even bother to read the link (in which you'd know that the book could be verified as legitimate).

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    LOL So you're blaming whitey for entering new land and forming colonies.
    Wait, somehow it was the Native Americans fault for the founding of the British colonies in America? India actually invited the British to come colonize them? Please leave your ignorance of relative history out of your posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    So you're admitting the West advanced beyond the Middle East.
    Show me where I said that? Watch, I'll do the exact same thing you just did with the next quoted part.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Thanks for that.
    So you're admitting Islamic contributions during Medieval times brought the West out of the Dark Ages. Thanks for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    And India is rapidly modernizing beceause they don't have a majority of the country still being told by their religion that women are property.
    India didn't have a state religion under the Mughal Empire. Great job expressing yet again your ignorance of history.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    ROFLOL Now that was good. So you consider advancement in the Muslim world that children aren't buried alive but its still ok to treat them like property and to hit them?
    Where did I say it was OK? That's the thing about you that makes you a pathetic debater. You accuse people of making assertions that you make up for them. It's quite elementary.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    LMAO. You somehow believe a YouTube source is more valid and credible than a legitimate book that can be verified?

    Now that's laughable.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    No one can verify? I provided the link to the book. Do you want the ISBN number? The quoted text is provided online by Google Books. I love how you completely disregarded everything else I said, including the creation of the scientific method. It's obvious you have no actual rebuttal, and didn't even bother to read the link (in which you'd know that the book could be verified as legitimate).
    Gee how about NAMES, LINKS we can verify. Only someone in big trouble in a debate throws out book titles and claims like an old Ragu commercial that "its in there"

    Wait, somehow it was the Native Americans fault for the founding of the British colonies in America? India actually invited the British to come colonize them? Please leave your ignorance of relative history out of your posts.
    LOL Give us ANY evidence that all of the Middle East was refused any attempt at bettering themselves by Europeans.

    Lets see it. Produce the evidence.

    Show me where I said that? Watch, I'll do the exact same thing you just did with the next quoted part.
    Right here:

    Yeah, Western imperialism and colonialism had nothing to do with that... You probably have no idea that up until the British invasion of India, India was the de fact richest country in the world. Now look at it.
    Your admittance that European weaponry and technology was superior allowed more priminitve cultures to be conquered. The only problem is Islam is a key part in keeping things priminitve in the Middle East which is why India is growing in leaps and bounds because they don't have that hangup.

    So you're admitting Islamic contributions during Medieval times brought the West out of the Dark Ages. Thanks for that.
    Actaully what I said was So you're admitting the West advanced beyond the Middle East.

    Thanks for proving once again reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

    India didn't have a state religion under the Mughal Empire. Great job expressing yet again your ignorance of history.
    What does that have anything to do with the point of today which I said India is improving at a rapid pace? Do you enjoy not reading carefully?

    Where did I say it was OK?
    Right here:

    Look at pre-Islam Arabia and tell me Islam didn't advance woman's rights. Oh wait, you cannot look at history with an objective viewpoint so I think I will explain it to you. Prior to Islam, newborn daughters were usually buried alive in the desert of Arabia.
    You just made the claim that Islam prevented baby deaths so I had to point out Muslim clerics today in the very same lands still justify the beating of women. Thanks for keeping this easy.

    That's the thing about you that makes you a pathetic debater. You accuse people of making assertions that you make up for them. It's quite elementary.
    I know its sad when I quote you directly and embarass your pathetic attempts to rewrite your own words but its no challenge.

    LMAO. You somehow believe a YouTube source is more valid and credible than a legitimate book that can be verified?

    Now that's laughable.
    Thats right because unlike your claims without evidence you can watch the video and see what they say. There is no middle ground or doubt. Those are their words verbatim. Throwing out book titles smacks of deception. Are your positions so pathetic and weak you can't even find one source online we can verify? Is your argument that weak? Survey says yes.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Gee how about NAMES, LINKS we can verify. Only someone in big trouble in a debate throws out book titles and claims like an old Ragu commercial that "its in there".
    Now it is obvious you haven't even clicked the link I gave. All you had to was click the link and input any of the text from the quote I posted to find what page number it is in the book (it will also show the an image text of the book). Since you're too lazy to even open a link, I knew I would have to do it for you:

    Here's the text I quoted:
    The debt of our science to that of the Arabs does not consist in startling discoveries or revolutionary theories; science owes a great deal more to Arab culture, it owes its existence. The ancient world was, as we saw, pre-scientific. The astronomy and mathematics of the Greeks were a foreign importation never thoroughly acclimatized in Greek culture. The Greeks systematized, generalized and theorized, but the patient ways of investigation, the accumulation of positive knowledge, the minute methods of science, detailed and prolonged observation, experimental inquiry, were altogether alien to the Greek temperament. [...] What we call science arose in Europe as a result of a new spirit of inquiry, of new methods of investigation, of the method of experiment, observation, measurement, of the development of mathematics in a form unknown to the Greeks. That spirit and those methods were introduced into the European world by the Arabs.
    After inputting "Greeks systematized" into the 'Search this book' part of the link on Google Books, it gave me this result:

    It's hilarious that you accuse me of "throwing out book titles", when you are too lazy to even bother clicking a link.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    LOL Give us ANY evidence that all of the Middle East was refused any attempt at bettering themselves by Europeans.

    Lets see it. Produce the evidence.
    Let's see... British Mandate of Palestine. French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon. British Mandate of Mesopotamia. Apparently you believe self-determination is an invalid concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Right here:

    Your admittance that European weaponry and technology was superior allowed more priminitve cultures to be conquered. The only problem is Islam is a key part in keeping things priminitve in the Middle East which is why India is growing in leaps and bounds because they don't have that hangup.
    Where did I admit European weaponry and technology was superior? In case you wish to remain even more ignorant of relative history, it was British and Arab forces that overthrew Ottoman rule in the Levant. It was the British who promised Arabs independence for their support in defeating the Ottomans. It was only because of foreign imperialism that this did not happen:
    McMahon-Husain correspondence - Report of Arab-UK committee - UK documentation Cmd. 5974 (excerpts)/Non-UN document (16 March 1939)
    The contention that the British Government did intend Palestine to be removed from the sphere of French influence and to be included within the area of Arab independence (that is to say, within the area of future British influence) is also borne out by the measures they took in Palestine during the War. They dropped proclamations by the thousand in all parts of Palestine, which bore a message from the Sharif Husain on one side and a message from the British Command on the other, to the effect that an Anglo-Arab agreement had been arrived at securing the independence of the Arabs, and to ask the Arab population of Palestine to look upon the advancing British Army as allies and liberators and give them every assistance. Under the aegis of the British military authorities, recruiting offices were opened in Palestine to recruit volunteers for the forces of the Arab Revolt. Throughout 1916 and the greater part of 1917, the attitude of the military and political officers of the British Army was clearly based on the understanding that Palestine was destined to form part of the Arab territory which was to be constituted after the War on the basis of independent Arab governments in close alliance with Great Britain.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Actaully what I said was So you're admitting the West advanced beyond the Middle East.

    Thanks for proving once again reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
    And I asked you for proof of where I admitted that. You are equating conquering with being more advanced. By that logic, Nazi Germany was more advanced than Poland and France. I'm sure you've heard of the Western betrayal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What does that have anything to do with the point of today which I said India is improving at a rapid pace? Do you enjoy not reading carefully?
    It has to do with this laughable statement you made here:
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster
    And India is rapidly modernizing beceause they don't have a majority of the country still being told by their religion that women are property.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You just made the claim that Islam prevented baby deaths so I had to point out Muslim clerics today in the very same lands still justify the beating of women. Thanks for keeping this easy.
    Great logical fallacy! You are making this too easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    I know its sad when I quote you directly and embarass your pathetic attempts to rewrite your own words but its no challenge.
    No, you quote someone then somehow post your pathetic interpretation of it. It's almost like you have a warped sense of reality. There's only one other person I can think of that has this similar problem and that is Glenn Beck.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Thats right because unlike your claims without evidence you can watch the video and see what they say. There is no middle ground or doubt. Those are their words verbatim. Throwing out book titles smacks of deception. Are your positions so pathetic and weak you can't even find one source online we can verify? Is your argument that weak? Survey says yes.
    Check above where it's obvious you didn't even click the book link I had posted to Google Books. Pathetic and weak is you not taking the time to even bother checking a source someone provides and then proceeding to accuse them of not being able to verify said source when you clearly can.

    Last edited by Degreez; 07-08-10 at 03:00 AM.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Now it is obvious you haven't even clicked the link I gave. All you had to was click the link and input any of the text from the quote I posted to find what page number it is in the book (it will also show the an image text of the book). Since you're too lazy to even open a link, I knew I would have to do it for you:

    Here's the text I quoted:

    After inputting "Greeks systematized" into the 'Search this book' part of the link on Google Books, it gave me this result:

    It's hilarious that you accuse me of "throwing out book titles", when you are too lazy to even bother clicking a link.
    Little tip in debate. You actually bring your evidence with you. You don't claim its in some link then run away.

    Finally. Now I get to destroy your claims by giving you the real facts about the "golden age" of the Middle East.

    I do love how your only evidence is a summary of someone else's opinion but I expected no less from you.

    But in fact, much of the most common claims about the great achievements of Islamic culture have been exaggerated, often for quite transparent apologetic motives. The astrolabe was developed, if not perfected, long before Muhammad was born. The zero, which is often attributed to Muslims, and what we know today as "Arabic numerals" did not originate in Arabia, but in pre-Islamic India. Aristotle's work was preserved in Arabic not initially by Muslims at all, but by Christians such as the fifth century priest Probus of Antioch, who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic-speaking world. Another Christian, Huneyn ibn-Ishaq (809-873), translated many works by Aristotle, Galen, Plato and Hippocrates into Syriac. His son then translated them into Arabic. The Syrian Christian Yahya ibn 'Adi (893-974) also translated works of philosophy into Arabic, and wrote one of his own, The Reformation of Morals. His student, another Christian named Abu 'Ali 'Isa ibn Zur'a (943-1008), also translated Aristotle and others from Syriac into Arabic. The first Arabic-language medical treatise was written by a Christian priest and translated into Arabic by a Jewish doctor in 683. The first hospital was founded in Baghdad during the Abbasid caliphate -- not by a Muslim, but a Nestorian Christian. A pioneering medical school was founded at Gundeshapur in Persia -- by Assyrian Christians.

    The point here is simply that the great achievements of Islamic culture are being exaggerated for political and apologetic reasons today. For this sort of thing to go on at jihad-justifying Islamic websites is one thing, but an academic should know better. Emphasis on "should."

    If anyone makes Dr. Adamson's lecture and he takes questions, these would be some facts that one might politely and respectfully ask him about.


    Breaking news: the Muslims saved civilization! - Jihad Watch

    See these are real dates, real people and real facts. Not summaries by another author. Go ahead, try and recover from that beat down. I'll bet you had no clue who those people were. You were so locked into your fantasy about the great Middle East Golden Age you had no idea where they really got their ideas or should I say stole them from

    Let's see... British Mandate of Palestine. French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon. British Mandate of Mesopotamia. Apparently you believe self-determination is an invalid concept.
    Now watch carefully as a real debater destroys your pitiful attempts at justification for blaming Europe for the inadequacy of the Middle East.

    British Mandate of Palestine 1920–1948

    French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon 1920–1946

    British Mandate of Mesopotamia 1920–1932

    "Golden Age" of Middle East:

    Now I'll be real nice here and give you an extra 400 years even though its factually incorrect 750 to 1500 A.D

    First "Mandate" you cited: 1920

    Thats 420 YEARS of NOTHING. Where is the European onslaught that kept Islamic nations back in the Middle East all this time? Where are they Degreez?

    As usual, your arguments are so pathetic you don't even bother to research your own arguments before embarrassing yourself.

    Seriously. This is really getting sad.

    Do you blame the Europeans even today for the pitiful poor in the middle east? You are a one trick pony. Short on actually thinking about your facts and huge on emotional fallacies.

    Where did I admit European weaponry and technology was superior? In case you wish to remain even more ignorant of relative history, it was British and Arab forces that overthrew Ottoman rule in the Levant. It was the British who promised Arabs independence for their support in defeating the Ottomans. It was only because of foreign imperialism that this did not happen:
    McMahon-Husain correspondence - Report of Arab-UK committee - UK documentation Cmd. 5974 (excerpts)/Non-UN document (16 March 1939)
    Once again you fail to read your own article. NO WHERE in any of that BS you cited does it even discuss weapons. Am I supposed to be shocked that a country from far away used local people to fight on their behalf? Have you ever read any history on warfare? Mercenaries have been used throughout history for thousands of years. How can you not be aware of such basic historical knowledge?

    You claimed this proved the British did not have superior weapons. WHERE IS THAT PROOF? Where is the discussion of the weapons? Don't worry, I'll provide it and show you how sad your claims really are.

    One more thing. Citing "foreign imperialism" is just another excuse for someone lacking superior weaponry. Your own works don't back your ridiculous claims.

    The real reason the Ottoman's LOST world war one? Superior firepower.

    Ottoman Empire Ottoman Empire

    Handguns

    * Smith & Wesson

    * FN Browning M1903

    * Mauser C96

    * Pistole Parabellum 1908

    Rifles

    * Mauser Models 1887, 1889, 1890, 1893 and 1903

    * Gewehr 88 (Sent by Germany late in the war)

    * Gewehr 98 (Sent by Germany late in the war)

    * Peabody-Martini

    * Winchester M1866

    Machine Guns

    * Maxim gun

    * Maschinengewehr 08


    vs the British:

    United Kingdom British Empire and Commonwealth

    Handguns

    * Webley Revolver
    * Webley Self-Loading .455” Mark I (Royal Navy, since 1911, and later Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Flying Corps)
    * Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver
    * Colt M1911 (Royal Flying Corps and Royal Navy, Limited use)
    * Colt New Service
    * Smith & Wesson M1917 revolver
    * Smith & Wesson Model 10
    * Smith & Wesson Triple Lock
    * Lancaster pistol
    * Mauser C96

    Rifles

    * Lee-Enfield
    * Lee-Metford
    * Pattern 1914 Enfield
    * Martini-Enfield
    * Martini-Henry
    * Ross rifle (Canadian units)
    * Winchester Model 1894 (Royal Flying Corps, Limited use)
    * Winchester Model 1895
    * Winchester Model 1907
    * Type 30 rifle
    * Type 38 rifle
    * Type 38 cavalry rifle
    * Periscope rifle

    Machine Guns

    * Vickers machine gun
    * Maxim gun
    * Lewis Gun
    * Hotchkiss Mark I
    * M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun (Canadian units)

    Shotguns

    * Sawn-off shotgun (British and ANZAC trench raiders)

    Anti-tank weapons

    * Elephant gun

    Grenades

    * Grenade, No 1 Hales
    * Rifle grenades, 2, 3, 4 Hales
    * No.s 5, 23, 36 Mills
    * No. 6 Grenade
    * No.s 8, 9 Double Cylinder Jam Tin
    * No. 13 Battye
    * No. 15 Ball grenade
    * No. 27 Smoke Grenade
    * No. 34 Egg grenade

    Mortars

    * 2 inch Medium Mortar
    * Newton 6 inch Mortar
    * Stokes Mortar
    * Livens Projector

    Swords

    * 1897 Pattern
    * 1908 and 1912 Pattern Cavalry Swords
    * Claymore

    Bayonets

    * M1917 bayonet


    List of infantry weapons of World War I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Superior Firepower. Hell, the Ottoman's best weapons were German only solidifying my point. Only someone completely devoid of any historical understanding of war would claim otherwise.

    And I asked you for proof of where I admitted that. You are equating conquering with being more advanced.
    You're damn right. Too bad you don't understand basic history.

    By that logic, Nazi Germany was more advanced than Poland and France
    Um, YEAH! LOL

    Sigh. Your lack of understanding basic history just grows and grows.

    Let's take the Germans and Poland for just a second. How about the invasion of Poland?

    Polish lancers on horseback were slaughtered as they bravely, but ineffectually, charged columns of German tanks.

    SUPERIOR FIREPOWER. The Polish didn't have tanks. It doesn't matter if they were given 10 years to prepare, the Germans had the superior technology.

    How about France?

    In 1940 it defeated the French army, which had the necessary weapons (tanks, aircraft, radio), but of lesser quality, and it didn't know how to use it because it totally neglected mobile warfare after World War 1

    Blitzkrieg

    So once again your incredible ignorance of basic history and the use of superior firepower to win wars is staggering.

    It has to do with this laughable statement you made here:
    LOL You deny women are still treated as property in Islamic countries in the middle east?

    Quiz time. How many Muslim Countries in the middle East or even next door have equal rights for men and women? ONE. Turkey.

    Your incredible lack of basic knowledge continues to amaze.

    But go ahead, list all the countries in the Middle East that treat women by law as equals besides the dirty joos in Israel.

    I'll laugh while I wait.

    Great logical fallacy! You are making this too easy.
    ah yes the classic tactic of the defeated. Pretend to falsely classify your opponent's argument when you can't argue the point. You were the one who made the argument Islam has greatly improved the treatment of women and you cited babies are no longer killed in the streets while ignoring the fact that women are still not treated as equals and are even allowed to be beaten according to clerics who cite Islamic law.

    It really is sad to see you get defeated so easily by basic information. Almost takes the fun out of it. Almost

    No, you quote someone then somehow post your pathetic interpretation of it. It's almost like you have a warped sense of reality. There's only one other person I can think of that has this similar problem and that is Glenn Beck.
    LOL a Beck reference? Now I know you are in trouble. There is no interpretation. There is what you present and what you ignore. You make your own grave.

    Check above where it's obvious you didn't even click the book link I had posted to Google Books. Pathetic and weak is you not taking the time to even bother checking a source someone provides and then proceeding to accuse them of not being able to verify said source when you clearly can.
    Not only have I demolished your generalization from one book I've cited exactly where the Muslim "golden age" came from and who gave them the knowledge. Something you could never do.

    Then I destroyed your pathetic excuse for trying to blame Europe for the Middle East living in the Dark Ages some 420 years after this supposed "golden age" was to have happened.

    The Middle East was colonized because it lacked the superior knowledge and technology. Your sad attempts to equate the 1920s as an excuse for this inability to modernize despite being next door to it is really amazing.

    And then my personal favorite your inability to understand how the Polish and France were conquered or even what weaponry they had and didn't have. Hell, your understanding of how World War II was won is hysterical alone.

    *hint* it had something to do with a big boom. Google that in google books
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-08-10 at 03:58 AM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Conservatives literally hate diplomacy.

    I mean, what would NASA know about contributions to science and engineering?
    Enough to know that the Muslim contribution to science and engineering ended with the invention of the word "al gebra".

    There's a reason the history of science flows from Aristotle Roadblock through Copernicus to Kepler to Gallileo to Newton to Einstein (evil Jew), and not through the bin Laden family.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    So you're admitting Islamic contributions during Medieval times brought the West out of the Dark Ages. Thanks for that.
    Which begs the question:

    If "Islamic Contributions" brought Europe out of the Dark Ages, why did the lands dominated by Islam STAY in the Dark Ages to this very day?

    Increased trade, growing population, and technical innovation, and even the Black Death are all reasons why Europe moved past the Dark Ages and the Medieval period to eventually enjoy a renaissance and the birth of the modern world.

    Islam has no document comparable to the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, or the US Constitution.

    Islam has no acheivement comparable to the printing press, the steam engine, or the geared clock (which, interestingly, was anticipated by the startlingly complex Anti-Kythera Mechanism).

    NASA's top Administrator should be focused on re-establishing the US manned space program, not kissing up to a media outlet famous for it's anti-western hate speech.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Originally Posted by Deuce
    Irrational distrust and hatred of a group of people based on the actions of a few. American conservatives literally seem to think Islam is an enemy.
    What a cop-out!

    They are formed for a reason. When your group is involved in a pattern of behavior long enough, you get associated with it by default.

    You will see arabs/muslims being lunatic fringe extremists. Thats because where there's smoke, there's fire. They are the one flying jets into buildings, they are the ones beheading people on TV, they are the one sending children with bomb vests onto Israeli busses, etc.... For the last 30 years (and longer) we have been confronted continously with the image of arabs and muslims acting savagely towards others. Its not MY opinion, its a fact. They have created this image for themselves, and have allowed it to happen.

    I have no trouble with them now dealing with the backlash.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post

    LMAO. You somehow believe a YouTube source is more valid and credible than a legitimate book that can be verified?

    Now that's laughable.
    A picture is worth more than a thousand words....

    Perhaps you might want to get your facts straight before defending Islam. Their religion, as codified by the Koran, commands them to spread Islam with fire and sword and to kill those who do not convert.

    Islam has spent over 1200 years killing primarily those of other religions and will certainly kill off a certain number of their own.

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    Re: NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World

    Daily Show's take on it, entertaining as usual:
    Video: Wish You Weren't Here | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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