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Thread: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's true, but look who else is bitching about the law besides liberals. HINT: Mexico
    And what party gave their president a standing ovation for doing so in our own capital.

    Let me see........
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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    You must be slow. It is absolutely a crime to be here illegally.
    Excuse me, based upon what? Your construct? Please show me where this is so....

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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Excuse me, based upon what? Your construct? Please show me where this is so....
    A simple search in google for 8 U.S.C. 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien
    8 U.S.C. 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien

    Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
    enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
    designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
    penalty of -

    This is one section that took no time to find. Entering the US illegally is a crime.
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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Thank you for bringing substantive evidential matter to the debate. That said, this proves little than document that entering the country is illegal. I never quarreled with the legality of entering the country, only with its legal significance (crime vs. infraction) This cite does not specifically state it as a crime, only as an offense. Things can be illegal and have penalties without being a crime (traffic offenses). Violating this may only be a violation, which is held by many.

    Moreover and most germane to our discussion, it says nothing about being here illegally. A Kansas Appeals Court specifically held that being here illegally is not a crime (note paragraph 6).

    http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Op...0817/96613.htm

    I welcome your retort.

    That said, I will concede, based upon my own evidence per above, that the 2000 amendment to the statue made illegal entry a crime, but being here illegally is not crime, its a violation.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-10-10 at 02:34 PM.

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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Thank you for bringing substantive evidential matter to the debate. That said, this proves little than document that entering the country is illegal. It does not specifically state it as a crime, only as an offense. Things can be illegal and have penalties without being a crime (traffic offenses). Violating this may only be a violation, which is held by many. Moreover and most germain to our discussion, it says nothing about being here illegally. A Kansas Appeals Court specifically held that being here illegally is not a crime (note paragraph 6).

    http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Op...817/96613.html

    I welcome your retort.
    One, why should I be the one to do the homework and search? Please prove its not a crime. Personally its spitting hairs to say its just an "offense". Yep, with jail time. Also if you read the code its says entry into the US needs to be through legal means. Many illegals just jump the borders. So what is your point? Are you defending people who enter illegally?
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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So let me see if I understand the debate....

    If a person comes here illegally, and thus sets up residence illegally, and thus arranges for electricity for that residence illegally, why wouldn't we cut their power?

    Look what liberalism has done to basic common sense.
    ... because we respect the rule of law and we have a thing called due process. You can not inflict punishment before you indict, try and convict of a crime.... I know civil rights are difficult for those of the conservative persuasion to wrap their minds around, but give it time.

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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    One, why should I be the one to do the homework and search? Please prove its not a crime. Personally its spitting hairs to say its just an "offense". Yep, with jail time. Also if you read the code its says entry into the US needs to be through legal means. Many illegals just jump the borders. So what is your point? Are you defending people who enter illegally?
    I just did.... I produced a ruling by the Kansas Court of Appeals explicitly stating that being here illegally is not a crime. Produce a retort of equivalent competence or stand down.

    I draw your attention to paragraphs 6 and 7.

    http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Op...0817/96613.htm
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-10-10 at 02:44 PM.

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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I just did.... I produced a ruling by the Kansas Court of Appeals explicitly stating that being here illegally is not a crime. Produce a retort of equivalent competence or stand down.

    I draw your attention to paragraphs 6 and 7.

    96613 -- State v. Martinez -- McAnany -- Kansas Court of Appeals
    From your linke: ". 8 U.S.C. 1325 (2000) declares an alien's unsanctioned entry into the United States to be a crime. While Congress has criminalized illegal entry into this country, it has not made the continued presence of an illegal alien in the United States a crime unless the illegal alien has previously been deported and has again entered this country illegally. 8 U.S.C. 1326 (2000) makes it a felony for an alien who has been deported to thereafter reenter the United States or at anytime thereafter be found in the United States.

    enter the first time - crime
    be deported and enter second time - crime.

    Your link is not a very good example imo, becuase it address two issues at the same time (illegal drugs, and illegal status in the US).
    Lets keep the discussion simple by addressing those that are in the US illegally and no other crime/ or your position (offense).

    As far as the original post. The cutting off of power to illegals is one persons opinion./idea that is running for Corporation Commission. It is not an idea the state reps are even considering. The news picked up on the one persons comments (ya think because immigration is such a hot political issue). In other threads I have stated the illegal problem is (lack of border security with people illegally crossing into the US daily, and what to do with those that have been in the US for a long time illegally).

    I take it you are pro illegal, (yes/no)?

    Why in the heck would I stand down? You have not proven that entering the US is not a crime.
    Last edited by mike2810; 07-10-10 at 06:45 PM.
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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    From your linke: ". 8 U.S.C. 1325 (2000) declares an alien's unsanctioned entry into the United States to be a crime. While Congress has criminalized illegal entry into this country, it has not made the continued presence of an illegal alien in the United States a crime unless the illegal alien has previously been deported and has again entered this country illegally. 8 U.S.C. 1326 (2000) makes it a felony for an alien who has been deported to thereafter reenter the United States or at anytime thereafter be found in the United States.

    enter the first time - crime
    be deported and enter second time - crime.

    Your link is not a very good example imo, becuase it address two issues at the same time (illegal drugs, and illegal status in the US).
    Lets keep the discussion simple by addressing those that are in the US illegally and no other crime/ or your position (offense).

    As far as the original post. The cutting off of power to illegals is one persons opinion./idea that is running for Corporation Commission. It is not an idea the state reps are even considering. The news picked up on the one persons comments (ya think because immigration is such a hot political issue). In other threads I have stated the illegal problem is (lack of border security with people illegally crossing into the US daily, and what to do with those that have been in the US for a long time illegally).

    I take it you are pro illegal, (yes/no)?

    Why in the heck would I stand down? You have not proven that entering the US is not a crime.

    I never stated that entering the US was not a crime, only that being here illegally is not a crime. My cite is very clear on that. Find one that refutes this.


    The criminalization of entry was in 2000. If you entered illegally before then, you did not commit a crime. If you are still here, that is not a crime and if you entered legally but stayed beyond your welcome, that is not a crime either. Hence, being an illegal alien does not make you a criminal. This was the issue at hand, not how you got here but your status now that you are here.

    Again, it is NOT a crime to be an illegal alien.

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    Re: Arizona Candidate: Cut Off Power to Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I never stated that entering the US was not a crime, only that being here illegally is not a crime. My cite is very clear on that. Find one that refutes this.


    The criminalization of entry was in 2000. If you entered illegally before then, you did not commit a crime. If you are still here, that is not a crime and if you entered legally but stayed beyond your welcome, that is not a crime either. Hence, being an illegal alien does not make you a criminal. This was the issue at hand, not how you got here but your status now that you are here.

    Again, it is NOT a crime to be an illegal alien.
    Your entirely right. It is still a crime

    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff-Appellee, VERSUS ALEJANDRO

    “The defendants were convicted by a jury of all the charges. Pineda-Jimenez was sentenced to twenty-seven months' imprisonment for the conspiracy and harboring convictions and six months for the illegal entry conviction, to be served concurrently. Rivas-Alvarez was sentenced to thirty months' imprisonment for the conspiracy and harboring convictions and six months for illegal entry, to be served concurrently.”

    Yes, some courts have ruled that if a person(illegal) has been in the US for a lengh of time it is more of a cival matter. the courts did not state that if you illegal cross today, you are not breaking federal law.

    Your playing word games

    So again, you pro illegal? I think you are.
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