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Thread: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

  1. #61
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Well I never said that a foreign country could do that. I merely said no country in the world recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
    And that doesn't change the fact that Jerusalem is Israel's capital.
    Care to cite this 'law'?
    I didn't say that there is an actual law stating that, I've meant that from the eyes of the law, the only one who really has something to say about the capital of a sovereign state is the sovereign state itself. There is no law that claims the international community can designate the capital of a sovereign state.
    Yes, with a nice little side note added to it
    Who cares, they tell you that Jerusalem is Israel's capital and that's all that matters.
    Only time will tell.
    43 years have spoken.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That land was never under the control of the "Palestinian Arabs".
    Never in history did the group known back then to be the "Palestinian Arabs" and known now to be the "Palestinians" have ever controlled the land.
    It was, since the 20th century, under Ottoman control, under British control, under Jewish control, under Jordanian control and now under Jewish control again.
    I do agree however that there are certain parts in East Jerusalem where there are Arab population centers, and that's why I believe that in a final conclusive agreement Israel should give the Palestinians the Arab quarter of the city.
    This is how I've always seen it: I consider myself a Terran (because Earthling sounds silly). I am an American. I am a Californian. I am a Norcali. I am a Sacramentan. I am a midtowner (my part of Sacramento.) If you had to ask which one of those I am, or which one I gave my ultimate loyalties or identity to, I'm not sure if I could really narrow it down. I assume that other people have the same list of identities and allegiences. Just because they were also Ottomans or Arabs or Syrians doesn't mean they weren't also Palestinians just as me being an American doesn't stop me from being a Sacramentan.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  3. #63
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Well, perhaps the Arabs shouldn't have started the wars with the State of Israel... when you lose wars you start, you usually lose territory...
    Who is "right" doesn't matter, what matters is that both sides can agree to stop fighting.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  4. #64
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    This is how I've always seen it: I consider myself a Terran (because Earthling sounds silly). I am an American. I am a Californian. I am a Norcali. I am a Sacramentan. I am a midtowner (my part of Sacramento.) If you had to ask which one of those I am, or which one I gave my ultimate loyalties or identity to, I'm not sure if I could really narrow it down. I assume that other people have the same list of identities and allegiences. Just because they were also Ottomans or Arabs or Syrians doesn't mean they weren't also Palestinians just as me being an American doesn't stop me from being a Sacramentan.
    You would be hard pressed to find documentation of a separate group identifying themselves as Palestinians any time before the 1960s. Remember, what is now regarded as "Palestine" was part of Jordan and Egypt before 1967 and before that was part of the League of Nations British Mandate, and before that had been under Ottoman control, and before that had spells under Seljuk control, Crusader control, Arab control, Roman control, etc. but no such thing as a separate, conscious Palestinian identity really existed until very recent times...
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Who is "right" doesn't matter, what matters is that both sides can agree to stop fighting.
    And what we need is the Arabs to agree to stop fighting and recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Ramallah can serve just nicely as the Palestinian capital, as far as I am concerned...
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And what we need is the Arabs to agree to stop fighting and recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Ramallah can serve just nicely as the Palestinian capital, as far as I am concerned...
    Why do they need to do that?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Why do they need to do that?
    Why do they need to stop fighting?!?!? Yeah, I suppose perpetual warfare is good for the PR of the Palestinians because the world always chooses to see Israel as the problem and as long as it continues, they can continue to gain the sympathy of the international community.
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Why do they need to stop fighting?!?!? Yeah, I suppose perpetual warfare is good for the PR of the Palestinians because the world always chooses to see Israel as the problem and as long as it continues, they can continue to gain the sympathy of the international community.
    No, what I mean is why do they just have to give up on their aims and concede a whole undivided Jerusalem as the Israeli capital
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    And that doesn't change the fact that Jerusalem is Israel's capital.
    According to Israel. It is a fact that the rest of the world does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I didn't say that there is an actual law stating that, I've meant that from the eyes of the law, the only one who really has something to say about the capital of a sovereign state is the sovereign state itself.
    In the eyes of what 'law'? Israeli law or international law?
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    There is no law that claims the international community can designate the capital of a sovereign state.
    The Avalon Project : United Nations Charter; June 26, 1945
    The Members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter.
    United Nations Security Council Resolution 478 - Wikisource
    2. Affirms that the enactment of the "basic law" by Israel constitutes a violation of international law and does not affect the continued application of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since June 1967, including Jerusalem;

    3. Determines that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, which have altered or purport to alter the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem, and in particular the recent "basic law" on Jerusalem, are null and void and must be rescinded forthwith;
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Who cares, they tell you that Jerusalem is Israel's capital and that's all that matters.
    That is disingenuous. Both the CIA World Factbook and Wikipedia state that Jerusalem's is proclaimed as Israel's capital by Israel and that this proclaimation is disputed by the rest of the world. And it's all that matters to you. To the rest of the world, Jerusalem's status is disputed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    43 years have spoken.
    Wow... 43 whole years! That is such a long time compared to two milleniums of history in Jerusalem!

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You would be hard pressed to find documentation of a separate group identifying themselves as Palestinians any time before the 1960s. Remember, what is now regarded as "Palestine" was part of Jordan and Egypt before 1967 and before that was part of the League of Nations British Mandate, and before that had been under Ottoman control, and before that had spells under Seljuk control, Crusader control, Arab control, Roman control, etc. but no such thing as a separate, conscious Palestinian identity really existed until very recent times...
    Untrue:

    Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Whatever the differing viewpoints over the timing, causal mechanisms, and orientation of Palestinian nationalism, by the early 20th century strong opposition to Zionism and evidence of a burgeoning nationalistic Palestinian identity is found in the content of Arabic-language newspapers in Palestinian Territories, such as Al-Karmil (est. 1908) and Filasteen (est. 1911).[41] Filasteen, published in Jaffa by Issa and Yusef al-Issa, addressed its readers as "Palestinians", (Arabic: al-filasTīnīyyūn)[42] first focusing its critique of Zionism around the failure of the Ottoman administration to control Jewish immigration and the large influx of foreigners, later exploring the impact of Zionist land-purchases on Palestinian peasants (Arabic: فلاحين‎, fellahin), expressing growing concern over land dispossession and its implications for the society at large

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