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Thread: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Wait. if they're not occupying any territory and all land in their borders is technically theirs, then shouldn't full rights be given to everyone in that territory?
    It's technically disputed. How about the surrounding Arabs give their fellow Arabs full citizenship rights like Israel did for thousands upon thousands of Arabs who declared their allegiance to the nascent state of Israel rather than locking them up in concentration camps like the Arabs did to their fellow Arabs after '48?

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by freedomlover View Post
    True. Only in case the original owner of the squattered land was either killed or sold as slave, as the Yamasees and Cherokees were.
    Original appropriation can only be acquired through mixing labour with the land, the Native North Americans had no permanent settlements on the land thus they had no legitimate claim to title. The vast majority of the land which became Israel was either Jewish or Crown owned.

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It's technically disputed. How about the surrounding Arabs give their fellow Arabs full citizenship rights like Israel did for thousands upon thousands of Arabs who declared their allegiance to the nascent state of Israel rather than locking them up in concentration camps like the Arabs did to their fellow Arabs after '48?
    You're not actually discussing the issue here. Mind putting the red herrings away for a moment? if Israel claims the territory is part of Israel, then they should treat the citizens like Israeli citizens.
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    It had been Ottoman territory for centuries. After the Ottoman Empire lost World War I, the territory was assigned to the U.K. as a League of Nations mandate. Part of the commitment was to create a Jewish state in that territory. This was confirmed in the postwar treaty...
    Sure but its debateable whether simply having bigger guns, taking land by force and signing a bit of paper consitutes legitmacy. It may consituite a legal legitmacy but not a moral one. Does living on/cultivating the land for milenia not count for anything?

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Wait. if they're not occupying any territory and all land in their borders is technically theirs, then shouldn't full rights be given to everyone in that territory?
    Full citizen rights in Israel are given to anyone who carries the Israeli citizenship.
    I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here
    I believe the point was crystal clear, but let me repeat myself:
    You were claiming in post #53 that the land of East Jeursalem has been long "Palestinian", trying to use that false claim as a justification for the giving of the land to the group known today as the Palestinians, even though those are only the Palestinian Arabs and not the Palestinian Jews.
    Even if we go by your claim that whoever lives on the land controls and rules it, it's still wrong to imply that the land should be given to the Palestinian Arabs specifically and not to the Palestinian Jews(now Israelis) and the rest of the Palestinians as well.
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Sure but its debateable whether simply having bigger guns, taking land by force and signing a bit of paper consitutes legitmacy. It may consituite a legal legitmacy but not a moral one. Does living on/cultivating the land for milenia not count for anything?
    Doesn't count for sovereign rights, no...
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    You were claiming in post #53 that the land of East Jeursalem has been long "Palestinian", trying to use that false claim as a justification for the giving of the land to the group known today as the Palestinians, even though those are only the Palestinian Arabs and not the Palestinian Jews.
    Even if we go by your claim that whoever lives on the land controls and rules it, it's still wrong to imply that the land should be given to the Palestinian Arabs specifically and not to the Palestinian Jews(now Israelis) and the rest of the Palestinians as well.

    and the irony, the likes of which I'm sure is lost on the one making the claim, is that the very word "Jerusalem" he is using is not in Arabic.

    If there were any actual merit to this disingenuous claim, the world would be calling it by its made up name "Al Quds".
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    You're not actually discussing the issue here. Mind putting the red herrings away for a moment? if Israel claims the territory is part of Israel, then they should treat the citizens like Israeli citizens.
    I could be a LITTLE off on my Israeli/Palestinian relations, but I seem to recall early in the re-formation of Israel that when the Palestinians started to leave the Israelis pleaded with them to stay and be a part of the country...and that lasted right up until core groups of Palestinians began terror campaigns against Israelis. Palestine is not isiolated and divided by accident...the are isolated and divided because of the action of many of their past 'leaders'. There is a reason why Egypt and Jordan do not welcome Palestine within their borders as well.

    Now...if Abbas and the PA are sincere and demonstrate a willingness to combat Palestinian terrorists alongside israelis? Sure...I can see them forming up, joining...and equal rights for all 'citizens'. But until then...

    And I still stand by my original position on Palestine and Israel...there wont be peace until one side or the other is completely obliterated.

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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I could be a LITTLE off on my Israeli/Palestinian relations, but I seem to recall early in the re-formation of Israel that when the Palestinians started to leave the Israelis pleaded with them to stay and be a part of the country...and that lasted right up until core groups of Palestinians began terror campaigns against Israelis. Palestine is not isiolated and divided by accident...the are isolated and divided because of the action of many of their past 'leaders'. There is a reason why Egypt and Jordan do not welcome Palestine within their borders as well.

    Now...if Abbas and the PA are sincere and demonstrate a willingness to combat Palestinian terrorists alongside israelis? Sure...I can see them forming up, joining...and equal rights for all 'citizens'. But until then...

    And I still stand by my original position on Palestine and Israel...there wont be peace until one side or the other is completely obliterated.
    Actually, the core group as led by Al Husseini had been terrorizing Jews for over two decades before Israel was formed. The other most influential family, the Nashashibis, were more disposed towards coexistance. When Israel was formed, the more belligerant haters of Jews left and those more prone towards cooperation stayed.
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    Re: On eve of Obama-Netanyahu meet, Abbas offers Jerusalem compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Actually, the core group as led by Al Husseini had been terrorizing Jews for over two decades before Israel was formed. The other most influential family, the Nashashibis, were more disposed towards coexistance. When Israel was formed, the more belligerant haters of Jews left and those more prone towards cooperation stayed.
    OK...so a LITTLE off...and those Palestinians that left...Im guessing they were the early PLO folks?

    Point is...Israel didnt create this seperate and unequal situation all by their lonesome. They respond (and are right to do so) to repeated terrorist actions...actions that occur pretty much daily. And Ive said it on many occasions...I think Israel as utilized the ultimate in restraint. If it were my country and I was in charge Palestinians would have ceased to exist from within Israeli borders 30-40 years ago.

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