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Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

Since they started providing nuclear reactors, jet engines, light bulbs, and practically everythin else they sell to the DoD.

Are you really arguing that GE makes the majority of its income from government sales?

Seriously?

Let's make the government obey it's own Constitution, and that will end all this subsidy BS and restore freedom to the marketplace.

So you'd be okay with Obama's plan to hack down subsidies to nuclear, coal and natural gas?

Furthermore, since you have stated that anything subsidized is not "cost effective, efficient or constitutional" you must think that coal, natural gas and nuclear, among a whole host of other things including corporate agriculture is the same as solar no?

That'll kill solar energy, but only a damn fool would want gallium arsenide on their roofs, anyway.

One must question if you understand how solar panels are built. Does GaSa come into contact in the form it is used that releases arsenic? No.
 
Ok!...LOL...when their product hit's the market, you be sure and let us know. I can't wait!! I'm sure Obama will be bragging about it, so you can clue us in at that time. personally, I think you're getting paid a **** load of money to work in a novelty, but I'm sure you'll let us know when it hit's the market and makes all our lives better.

Sizing Up Solar-Power IPOs

Maybe you think the Chinese should get the money and not us?

Furthermore:
Suntech Power Holdings Co. Ltd. (STP) Stock -- Seeking Alpha
SunPower Corporation (SPWRA) Stock -- Seeking Alpha

Market capitalization and volume suggests that the market is very diametrically opposed to the opinions you have given here.
 
Sizing Up Solar-Power IPOs

Maybe you think the Chinese should get the money and not us?

Furthermore:
Suntech Power Holdings Co. Ltd. (STP) Stock -- Seeking Alpha
SunPower Corporation (SPWRA) Stock -- Seeking Alpha

Market capitalization and volume suggests that the market is very diametrically opposed to the opinions you have given here.

They're going to make the money from solar panel production, anyway, because union workers in America waon't work for less than $75 an hour.
 
By that measure, if there was any real market for nuclear power, the government wouldn't have to piss out $10 billion in loan guarantees to promote it.



Apparently you are once again pretending this post:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...t-2-billion-solar-power-2.html#post1058836311

Doesn't exist.

Nor this post:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...t-2-billion-solar-power-2.html#post1058836339

I guess you think $70 billion in sales is not a market.

It's pretty obvious you have no problem with subsidies for things you want.

$70 billion? That's all? My point is, yes, there is a market for solar panels to charge trolling motor batteries and lighted road signs and the like, but the technology doesn't exist to provide high volumes of power to a city. That market doesn't exist. It's naive to think that the technology is just sitting there, waiting to be kicked into high gear within a few weeks. We're talking decades, before solar power will be that advanced. Meanwhile, we need to go with what's tried and true, rather than trying to make a phonograph needle out of a peanut.
 
Personally I think it would be best to invest the money into building more nuclear power plants.
 
Personally I think it would be best to invest the money into building more nuclear power plants.

I believe we should be investing in all of it--soloar, wind, oil, natural gas, nukes, hydro. However, that would make too much sense to most folks on the Left.

Somebody might **** around and actually make some money. Can't have that!
 
I understand that solar powered energy is not currently as effective as coal, gas, etc. But why should we not seek to improve it? People act like this issue has never been brought up before. I'm glad he is at least making an effort towards the issue, chump change or not.
 
I understand that solar powered energy is not currently as effective as coal, gas, etc. But why should we not seek to improve it? People act like this issue has never been brought up before. I'm glad he is at least making an effort towards the issue, chump change or not.

I don't think that anyone has said that we shouldn't continue to do the research to improve it; only that we can't just shut down the oil and gas industry, then turn around and sink billions of dollars into something that, at this time, isn't cost effective. How much sense does that make?
 
I believe we should be investing in all of it--soloar, wind, oil, natural gas, nukes, hydro. However, that would make too much sense to most folks on the Left.

Somebody might **** around and actually make some money. Can't have that!

Some of us "on the left" might actually consider that there may very well be things that are more important than money. I know, that's a pretty bizarre concept for the GOP-types, but it's true! Or, maybe some of us are considering the long-term. Better use of renewable sources will improve the long-term security and economy of this country.

I don't think that anyone has said that we shouldn't continue to do the research to improve it; only that we can't just shut down the oil and gas industry, then turn around and sink billions of dollars into something that, at this time, isn't cost effective. How much sense does that make?

Straw man. Nobody is arguing that we should "just shut down" the oil and gas industry. (at least not for another century or so)
 
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I don't think that anyone has said that we shouldn't continue to do the research to improve it; only that we can't just shut down the oil and gas industry, then turn around and sink billions of dollars into something that, at this time, isn't cost effective. How much sense does that make?

It's just the price of one B-2 bomber.
 
The gas and oil industry is being shut down? Or do you mean you would rather invest in something that works right NOW. I see your point and i agree. But i just don't see this investment as an attempt to destroy those industries. I only see it as an attempt to kickstart solar energy technology to actually make it more cost effective. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
Can't the oil and gas industry already support itself?
 
Can't the oil and gas industry already support itself?

Without government support do you think the politicians would receive as much money in campaign donations? Don't forget the lobbyists have to get paid too.
 
This is a tiny step in the right direction. Wind, tidal, thermal, geothermal, biomass, hydro power generation should be the technology America invests in as opposed to giving massive oil companies huge subsidies. Does anyone see the irony here? The most profitable companies on the planet receiving welfare payouts? Nuclear would be alright but is so dam expensive and waste storage becomes a cumulative problem over time.

Invest in technologies for instance Osmotic power


Investment should be put in advancement of electric car support infrastructure. Some tax breaks for people who would use American made solar panels in conjunction with wind power..Even burning coal at a power plant produces much less Co2 in electric cars then cars burning straight petroleum. American car companies should be all over the electric car. The technology for having and using electric cars has been available for over 10 years now but big oil shut it down.

Who Killed the Electric Car? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

America needs to manufacture and export. Endless service low paying service industry jobs don't produce much financial revenues from income tax of course they pay more then their fair share on sales tax etc. Green technology, biotech, nanotech need to be capitalised on in some way America has to make use of the knowledge edge they have to create well paying manufacturing jobs .. for export. Otherwise America.. the captain of capitalism will fail. Since we cannot compete with our Chinese economic slaves. (work for approx $100 US a month.. in a "good job") Globalism at it's finest.

America has been languishing in this department for years. Take a look at Europe’s plan for sustainable energy.

feature_solar5.jpg


feature_solar1.jpg


wind-power-plants-9264.jpg


So yes this is a good move by this administration.. but it isn't near enough. Imagine the jobs that could be created from developing a massive new energy infrastructure that will help America slow oil consumption by 20,680,000 bbl/day (2007 a full 24%). No worries about having insane ecological disasters like we are seeing in the gulf. No more pandering to big oil companies or electing big oil advocates into the president/vice presidents offices. America needs to produce long lasting jobs to get through this recession.

It is painfully apparent that the private enterprise doesn’t have faith in the current American recovery plan, else they would be highering Americans to work instead of investing money in foreign markets and creating products to sell to Americans. Laissez faire capitalism in its shining glory will cloud over for America if you cannot compete.

It is due time to invest in new technologies to export or you can just keep languishing until your state is completely bankrupt from indirectly financing manufactured goods in third world economies and buying them as imports. American middle class is being completely wiped out and the only people really benefiting financially speaking are the wealthy who actually do nothing but act as parasites in the imported slave labour manufacturing market.

Get manufacturing working again.
 
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Great post. The only way (I believe) to fund these programs are in intervals. I think once success starts to kick in with initial investments maybe putting larger ones in can become a viable option. Large lump sums would definately create outrage in the public. Especially with the current economy.
 
Great post. The only way (I believe) to fund these programs are in intervals. I think once success starts to kick in with initial investments maybe putting larger ones in can become a viable option. Large lump sums would definately create outrage in the public. Especially with the current economy.

Our country couldn't afford to build Hoover Dam now.
 
Our country couldn't afford to build Hoover Dam now.

Certainly the bush administration has precipitated this mess. Imagine the cost of the Iraq war some 1.5 trillion.. instead of that having been spent on securing oil contracts for big oil companies.. having spent it towards a new sustainable energy infrastructure. It really is a shame what the republican party has done to the US. Destroyed a surplus they inherited from the democrats, destroyed the economy via deregulation, precipitated America's largest natural ecological disaster via deregulation of big oil, doubled the national debt, destroyed America's leadership role almost completely in political realms(the bush administration was globally hated).. on and on. Now the democrats are back in power and republicans are filibustering healthcare, financial reform of the banks, economic stimulus spending. Hell them bastards couldn't spend the money fast enough when GW was in office. Now look at them pretending to be "economically conservative" by bashing the people that probably lost their jobs under the bush administration as being welfare bums or w/e. The republican party has become a bunch of petty dupes for wall street and big oil.

This small move by Obama is only a tiny baby step compared to what needs to be done. Of course the republicans will fight it all the way.
 
They're going to make the money from solar panel production, anyway, because union workers in America waon't work for less than $75 an hour.

What IS your argument? You keep changing topics left and right without any semblance of coherent thought.

And furthermore, that GM number has been rebuked and virtually no other union has that pay scheme and you are clearly unaware that as a percentage of workers, Union membership is at a all time low. Less than 10% of all workers are union.

Seriously. GOOGLE.COM. USE IT.

$70 billion? That's all? My point is, yes, there is a market for solar panels to charge trolling motor batteries and lighted road signs and the like, but the technology doesn't exist to provide high volumes of power to a city. That market doesn't exist. It's naive to think that the technology is just sitting there, waiting to be kicked into high gear within a few weeks. We're talking decades, before solar power will be that advanced. Meanwhile, we need to go with what's tried and true, rather than trying to make a phonograph needle out of a peanut.

You do realize that $70 billion is larger then a fair number of industries in the US no? Oh wait. You don't know.

Once again, you are wrong:
World's largest photovoltaic power plants (ranking 1-50)

Again, USE GOOGLE BEFORE POSTING.
 
Can't the oil and gas industry already support itself?

Apparently not:

Nation & World | As oil industry fights a spill-cleanup tax, it reaps large subsidies | Seattle Times Newspaper

According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments such as oil-field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry.

For many small and midsize oil companies, the tax on capital investments is so low that it is more than eliminated by various credits. These companies' returns on those investments are often higher after taxes than before.

That's ridiculous.

So Apdst thinks that Solar is not viable because it needs subsidies...but oil is despite its subsidies? Talk about logically incoherent.
 
I believe we should be investing in all of it--soloar, wind, oil, natural gas, nukes, hydro. However, that would make too much sense to most folks on the Left.

Somebody might **** around and actually make some money. Can't have that!

Directly lying about what people say doesn't make you right. It makes you a liar.

Very few people have come out against all of those. And most of us who are against additional oil expansion are against it primarily for national security reasons. The longer the US stay on oil, the more money goes to Chavez, the Mullahs and Putin. Tell me why that is a good thing. Or just run away.
 
I don't think that anyone has said that we shouldn't continue to do the research to improve it

Care to look at your own posts? You derided the use of federal money to do exactly that. YOU said it.

only that we can't just shut down the oil and gas industry, then turn around and sink billions of dollars into something that, at this time, isn't cost effective. How much sense does that make?

Wait. So you're against providing money to make solar more effective, but you want to continue research to make it more effective? How about we take some of those subsidies oil gets and allocate them to solar?

Wow.
 
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