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Thread: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Fine let the Chinese bring it to market. And they will.
    They're going to be building the panels, anway, because union workers in America won't work for less than 100 grand a year.

    But, in case you haven't noticed...there is no real market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They're going to be building the panels, anway, because union workers in America won't work for less than 100 grand a year.
    And their engineers are going to be developing better and better products in increasing numbers.


    But, in case you haven't noticed...there is no real market.

    It seems like to me people are looking for it every day. And the people that get the infrastructure are going to reap rewards on the investment.

  3. #13
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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    And their engineers are going to be developing better and better products in increasing numbers.
    They, or anyone else, can develop what they want, but as long as there's no market, they won't be selling their product.





    It seems like to me people are looking for it every day. And the people that get the infrastructure are going to reap rewards on the investment.
    Whose looking for it, everyday? The people that have bought into the treehugger bull**** that there actually other viable energy sources, that are just lieing dormant and waiting for someone to crank them up? Shell and BP have spent billions on wind/solar/water and couldn't create a viable source of alternative energy. It only makes sense that if they did find something, they would be all over it.

    Yeah, I know, everyone thinks the oil companies are just into drilling for oil, because of...whatever. But, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if any one of the oil companies had harnessed the next generation energy source, that they would be marketing the living **** out of it, in an attempt to corner the market. Why is that so hard for some folks to phathom?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #14
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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    $2 billion is chump change.

    A better idea would be a 30 year tax break for all solar investment. With that kind of time line, investors will pour in. Who the hell is going to invest when the tax incentives are just 5 years?
    Agreed.
    I think you have to add at least a zero/$20 Bil to start really moving the ball in anything but a tiny incremental way.

    It was about 20 years ago someone suggested Large Solar plant in the Four Corners area of the Southwest could power the whole country.
    Now THAT would be an initiative. Say $50 bil-$100 to subsidize the small extra current cost of solar and really do a Giant building program cutting Fossil Fuel use by a significant percent and helping the balance of payments.. Permanently. And Jobs of course.
    Remember JFK (1961) declared we should go to the moon from Scratch in less than a decade? 8 years later, Moon.
    We certainly have more know-how in Solar now than we did in Space Travel in 1960.


    THIS, more than any policy, Is where I think Obama has failed (and those before him).
    NO imagination or courage to REALLY change this countries energy future. And $2 Billion is NOT it.
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    Last edited by mbig; 07-03-10 at 10:31 PM.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If there was a market, private industry would already be all over. Obviously, there's no market.
    There's this thing called Google. Started by a bunch of nerds. It has the largest search engine market share. You might want to try it one day.

    This resurgence could lead to a global solar market worth $70 billion in sales over18.5 GW of installation by 2013, the report forecasts.
    Solar Market: Dip in 2009, Rise by 2011

    No market you say?

    GE Targets The Solar Market And Sales Leader First Solar TechPulse 360
    National Semiconductor and QC Solar Sign Sales Agreement to Manufacture, Market Intelligent PV Electronics | National Semiconductor

    Hmm. I guess GE isn't part of the private industry. Hey Apdst, since when was GE an arm of the government?

    Same thing for QC and National Semi-Conductor.

    No market you say? I guess GE and National Semiconductor aren't big firms.

    Could that be, because it isn't cost effective?
    Neither was oil when it started. What's your point? Cost effective now does not mean cost effective never. While you are obviously unaware of the concept of the first mover advantage, usually the firms who get into a new market or industry segment first with good products tend to dominate and reap abnormal profits. Maybe that's why NSC and GE are spending billions? Oh wait. I forgot. You argued that they are actually part of the government since you said "If there was a market, private industry would already be all over." Since GE and NSC are all over it, they can't be part of the private market.

    Research before opening your proverbial mouth. It will reduce the frequency of you appearing foolish.

    Why would anyone spend their money on an energy system that isn't cost effective?
    First-mover advantage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And it is cost effective when you get similar subsidies to how coal, nuclear and natural gas get.

    Why would the government spend billions of tax payer dollars and create a situation that would force American citizens to spend more of their hard earned money on an energy source that isn't cost effective?
    For the same reason the government spends billions of tax payer dollars and create a situation that would force American citizens to spend more of their hard earned money on other power sources like nuclear.

    There are really only two answers: the intentional harming of the country, or stupidity.
    The government may be stupid, but they aren't the only ones. *wink*
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Not that we really need to know that Apdst is wrong, but here's more information on the solar power market.

    First, poly silicate is one of the major ingredients.

    Honeywell, a very large American company is expanding production by 5,000 tons to meet South Korean demand.
    Honeywell To Help Global Polysilicon Maker Meet Fast-Growing Demand for Solar Panels Honeywell Now – Keeping you up to date on Honeywell

    There was so much global demand that manufacturers went into overdrive and the glut of supply caused a significant decline in prices in 2008.

    Polysilicon pricing to begin 'precipitous plunge' in 2009, says iSuppli report - Photovoltaics International

    The supply crunch has thrust the polysilicon business -- once the all but exclusive territory of semiconductor makers -- into high gear. Novel financing deals and new partnerships are afoot, with solar-module makers scrambling to secure long-term deals and chemical manufacturers scrambling to boost factory output by 2008 and beyond
    Solar-panel makers scramble to lock in polysilicon supplies Special Report - MarketWatch

    And Apdst says there's no market. Really.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    If these technologies are going to be developed overseas obviously private industry has failed us in keeping the USA as the world's leader.
    Don't worry. They're being developed here.


    TED,
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    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If there was a market, private industry would already be all over. Obviously, there's no market. Could that be, because it isn't cost effective?
    No, it's more like it's difficult to find venture capital for something which may or may not work.

    In other words, in the current climate people are willing to invest in something which will work, but they're very slow to risk money on something which doesn't come with some kind of guarantee.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #19
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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Fine let the Chinese bring it to market. And they will.
    Some of it, probably, but high technology isn't their strong suit.

    They tend to stick to the kind of thing that can be produced in large quantities for relatively little cost.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #20
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    Re: Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, it's more like it's difficult to find venture capital for something which may or may not work.

    In other words, in the current climate people are willing to invest in something which will work, but they're very slow to risk money on something which doesn't come with some kind of guarantee.
    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why companies aren't investing in solar in the US like they are elsewhere. With sketchy, unreliable tax incentives along with subsidies to competing forms of electricity, firms would rather go where the tax incentives are stable and where their competitors aren't feeding at the trough of corporate welfare. We'll make the ingredients for it, but it's largely for export.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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