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Thread: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Isn't this new law in direct conflict with the SCOTUS ruling on the 2nd amendment? If so, how can this law even pass? Doesn't it mean that the lawmakers in Chicago are blatantly disregarding the fed? Fed trumps State so I don't see how this can even be happening.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Rights cannot be limited based on moral disapproval per the Iowa case that we've discussed before. Referencing the case law that states marriage is a right does EVERYTHING for my argument.
    If marriage is a right - a fundamental right, no less - explain, then, how a state can legally and constitionally eliminate it in full simply by passing a law that repeals the laws that create it.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 07-03-10 at 06:19 PM.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Isn't this new law in direct conflict with the SCOTUS ruling on the 2nd amendment? If so, how can this law even pass? Doesn't it mean that the lawmakers in Chicago are blatantly disregarding the fed? Fed trumps State so I don't see how this can even be happening.
    The anti-gun loons dont care about the constitutuion when it gets in the way of what they want.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Man if this were about limiting the number of cars you can buy Jay Leno would be pissed!
    If this were about abotion, imagine the screaming and yelling and crying.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Rights cannot be limited based on moral disapproval per the Iowa case that we've discussed before. Referencing the case law that states marriage is a right does EVERYTHING for my argument.
    With Loving v. Virginia, Blacks pointed to all the other mixed race couples and claimed their right was being denied, so you must be pointing to all those heteros marrying the same sex when claiming a right is being denied gays.

    No one ever had the right to marry the same sex just like no one ever had the right to marry their sister or a child and no one ever had the right to keep and bear missiles.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If marriage is a right - a fundamental right, no less - explain, then, how a state can legally and constitionally eliminate it in full simply by passing a law that repeals the laws that create it.
    Show me where they have and it has been upheld and I will be more than happy to address that.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    With Loving v. Virginia, Blacks pointed to all the other mixed race couples and claimed their right was being denied, so you must be pointing to all those heteros marrying the same sex when claiming a right is being denied gays.

    No one ever had the right to marry the same sex just like no one ever had the right to marry their sister or a child and no one ever had the right to keep and bear missiles.
    If Loving were the extent of the case law in question, you would be correct. However, the accumulation of case law goes much deeper than Loving. Loving just happens to be the most famous. Sharp v Perez specifically contains language about choice of partner and why the marriage arrangement is a fundamental right.

    It is obtuse to pretend that the argument over Loving, Perez, and Iowa doesn't extend to modern questions just because they weren't on the table back then. Your argument is akin to stating that no one has a right to keep and bear any arms that weren't already in production at the time of the writing of the 2nd Amendment.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    If Loving were the extent of the case law in question, you would be correct. However, the accumulation of case law goes much deeper than Loving. Loving just happens to be the most famous. Sharp v Perez specifically contains language about choice of partner and why the marriage arrangement is a fundamental right.

    It is obtuse to pretend that the argument over Loving, Perez, and Iowa doesn't extend to modern questions just because they weren't on the table back then. Your argument is akin to stating that no one has a right to keep and bear any arms that weren't already in production at the time of the writing of the 2nd Amendment.
    If those cases had the reach and power you claim they do, then polygamy would already be legal. Obviously the right is limited and the State retains the right to regulate which choices are valid choices and which are not. This remains true even after gay marriage becomes legal. Gays will not be able to marry just any person of the same sex just as heteros today can not marry just any person of the opposite sex.

    Your right to make a choice exists but you are forced to make your decision from among valid options.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-03-10 at 07:35 PM.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If those cases had the reach and power you claim they do, then polygamy would already be legal.
    You're going to have to explain that one.

    Obviously the right is limited and the State retains the right to regulate which choices are valid choices and which are not.
    Within certain Constitutional guidelines. I never made any argument otherwise.

    This remains true even after gay marriage becomes legal. Gays will not be able to marry just any person of the same sex just as heteros today can not marry just any person of the opposite sex.
    There are no limits to whom you can or cannot marry barring those the state has a vested interest in opposing for the defense of the rights of one of the participants, as in the case of an adult trying to marry a child.

    Your right to make a choice exists but you are forced to make your decision from among valid options.
    And the state may not limit the validity of your options unless there is a demonstrable interest in the state to do so.

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    Re: Chicago approves new handgun restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Show me where they have and it has been upheld and I will be more than happy to address that.
    Your avoidance of the question is noted.
    Msrriage as a legal institution is a pivilege granted by the laws of a state. If a state repeals those laws, marriage, as a legal institution, ceases to exist.
    This utterly negates the argument that marriage is a fundamental right.

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