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Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

j-mac

j-mac

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WASHINGTON — Hoping to breathe new life into the stalled immigration effort, President Barack Obama on Thursday blamed the delay on recalcitrant Republicans whom he said had given in to the "pressures of partisanship and election-year politics."
Republicans responded that Obama's first step going forward must be to secure the border.
In his first immigration speech, Obama took Republicans to task, in particular 11 GOP senators who had backed attempts during the previous Republican administration to tighten the immigration system. He did not call out anyone by name.
Obama dismissed the focus on a "border security first" approach, saying the system is too big to be fixed "only with fences and border patrols." He advocated a comprehensive approach that would call on the government, businesses and illegal immigrants themselves to live up to their responsibilities within the law.


The Associated Press: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay
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What the?.... too Big? What a loser this President is.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
What the?.... too Big? What a loser this President is.


j-mac
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So he is a loser because he is right?

Let me ask you this... why did the Republicans not do anything when they had absolute power.... you had 6 years.
 
I've heard several times from folks on the left that they don't need Republicans since the Democrats have solid majorities in the House and Senate. If Obama is whining about the Republicans not supporting his efforts, then it can only mean he doesn't have all of the democrats on board with it.
 
Obama dismissed the focus on a "border security first" approach, saying the system is too big to be fixed "only with fences and border patrols." He advocated a comprehensive approach that would call on the government, businesses and illegal immigrants themselves to live up to their responsibilities within the law.
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He's absolutely right too. 'Securing the border' (whatever that means) will never solve our immigration problems on its own. To really make a difference, we need exactly what he said, a comprehensive approach that attacks the problem from several directions at once, and one of those absolutely has to be cracking down on businesses that hire illegals.

Look at it this way.

We've had a problem with illegal immigration in the US for decades, and the world hasn't ended.
No solution is going to solve the problem immediately, it will take years, and even then nothing will fix the problem completely.
This is a long-term problem, and it's not going to hurt to take some time to come up with a solution that will actually be effective. It's a far better idea than flailing about spending a ton of money on solutions that don't have a hope of fixing things.
Anyone who says that something has to be done RIGHT NAO!!!!!! is either misinformed, or most likely just trying to get votes.
 
molten_dragon said:
He's absolutely right too. 'Securing the border' (whatever that means) will never solve our immigration problems on its own. To really make a difference, we need exactly what he said, a comprehensive approach that attacks the problem from several directions at once, and one of those absolutely has to be cracking down on businesses that hire illegals.

Look at it this way.

We've had a problem with illegal immigration in the US for decades, and the world hasn't ended.
No solution is going to solve the problem immediately, it will take years, and even then nothing will fix the problem completely.
This is a long-term problem, and it's not going to hurt to take some time to come up with a solution that will actually be effective. It's a far better idea than flailing about spending a ton of money on solutions that don't have a hope of fixing things.
Anyone who says that something has to be done RIGHT NAO!!!!!! is either misinformed, or most likely just trying to get votes.
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actually there is a way to almost fix it 100%.. but the US is not ready to go that way... it is called a national ID that is required for everything from having a bank account, drivers license to owning and renting homes to getting a job or go to school.
 
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Saying "we're taking a comprehensive approach" is politicianese for saying "we're going to act like it's very complicated and will be able to say that nothing has been done yet because we're working on something really, really, big." While doing nothing at all.
 
PeteEU said:
actually there is a way to almost fix it 100%.. but the US is not ready to go that way... it is called a national ID that is required for everything from having a bank account, drivers license to owning and renting homes to getting a job or go to school.
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I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I don't think even that will solve the problem all by itself. People would just live under the radar, working for people who don't check ID, being paid cash, using public transportation, homeschooling, and living somewhere that doesn't check ID either (many of which illegals already do).
 
molten_dragon said:
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I don't think even that will solve the problem all by itself. People would just live under the radar, working for people who don't check ID, being paid cash, using public transportation, homeschooling, and living somewhere that doesn't check ID either (many of which illegals already do).
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Which would all be illegal and require prison time and huge fines. Hence people wont do it.

Face it... the problem is that there is too much money to be earned by exploiting illegals now. Make the cost of doing so, so high and the problem will become very small. For example a farmer who hires illegals to pick his fields.. would he do that if he even had a slight chance of getting busted and having his farm taken away from him? I doubt that.

But there is no political will what so ever to do that.. all people want is to punish the illegals while letting the reason the illegals are here.. get away with murder so to say. As long as that is the political climate, then nothing will happen that is in any way productive.

For example. In my home country we have had national ID system for over half a century now and our problem with illegal aliens is very limited since no one can function in society without the national ID. And for those that try, and get busted, the consequences for both parties but especially those that hire illegals is considerable.. everything from a huge fine, to jail and for the real bad ones, having your right to run said business or similar business taken away.
 
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Obama is only trying to figure out a way to legalize all those future Democrat votes. That's the hold up.
 
PeteEU said:
Which would all be illegal and require prison time and huge fines. Hence people wont do it.

Face it... the problem is that there is too much money to be earned by exploiting illegals now. Make the cost of doing so, so high and the problem will become very small. For example a farmer who hires illegals to pick his fields.. would he do that if he even had a slight chance of getting busted and having his farm taken away from him? I doubt that.
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The government couldn't take his farm, but anyway...

But there is no political will what so ever to do that.. all people want is to punish the illegals while letting the reason the illegals are here.. get away with murder so to say. As long as that is the political climate, then nothing will happen that is in any way productive.
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No, you're wrong. The People want the government to get a handle on illegal immigration, by securing the border, deporting illegal aliens and making sure that American businesses aren't hiring illegal aliens.

For example. In my home country we have had national ID system for over half a century now and our problem with illegal aliens is very limited since no one can function in society without the national ID. And for those that try, and get busted, the consequences for both parties but especially those that hire illegals is considerable.. everything from a huge fine, to jail and for the real bad ones, having your right to run said business or similar business taken away.
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That'll never happen in the United States, as long as w have a Democrat controlled congress. There are way too many Latino votes at stake.
 
PeteEU said:
actually there is a way to almost fix it 100%.. but the US is not ready to go that way... it is called a national ID that is required for everything from having a bank account, drivers license to owning and renting homes to getting a job or go to school.
Click to expand...

We already have these. They're called driver's licenses and social security cards.

Obama doesn't give a rip about these people or immigration policy in general. This is about one thing and one thing only: giving poor non-Americans the right to vote Democrat.

If these people were to vote largely Republican, do you think he'd push for this?
 
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PeteEU said:
actually there is a way to almost fix it 100%.. but the US is not ready to go that way... it is called a national ID that is required for everything from having a bank account, drivers license to owning and renting homes to getting a job or go to school.
Click to expand...

Why would people who hire illegals look to see if someone has national ID? They are already supposed to verify if the person they are hiring is legal. This national ID is nothing more than a load of crap to give the federal a inch that it will used further intrude into people's lives. And most illegals are paid in cash anyways. Seeing how banks and various property owners do credit checks the best thing to do is to require banks to verify the legal status of those they do business with and send some undercovers posing as illegals once in a while to see if the banks are and property owners are adhering to the new laws.
 
Erod said:
We already have these. They're called driver's licenses and social security cards.

Obama doesn't give a rip about these people or immigration policy in general. This is about one thing and one thing only: giving poor non-Americans the right to vote Democrat.

If these people were to vote largely Republican, do you think he'd push for this?
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If Mexicans voted Republican, Obama would be deporting them by the millions and deploy an entire army corps to seal the border so tight a mouse couldn't cross it without two forms of picture ID.
 
PeteEU said:
For example. In my home country we have had national ID system for over half a century now and our problem with illegal aliens is very limited since no one can function in society without the national ID. And for those that try, and get busted, the consequences for both parties but especially those that hire illegals is considerable.. everything from a huge fine, to jail and for the real bad ones, having your right to run said business or similar business taken away.
Click to expand...

The USA has states bigger than most of those European countries. So it makes sense that you people have a national ID. Your country having individual state IDs would be like one of our states having individual county IDs.
 
One of the things I picked up from Obama's speach was that the Feds, Employerss and Individuals need to be held acountable for the illegal problem. So what is he doing suing Arizona over the 2007 employer sanction law? That law basically states if an employer knowingly hires an illegal they can have their business license pulled and be subject to other penalties. Is it because the State came up with it first and the feds have done nothing in this area?

The immigration and illegal problem has been brewing for years. It is to bad that Obama says words and does nothing. There are actions within the authority of the President to start fixing the issue. If the feds do nothing, States will continue to work out their own solutions.
 
molten_dragon said:
He's absolutely right too. 'Securing the border' (whatever that means) will never solve our immigration problems on its own. To really make a difference, we need exactly what he said, a comprehensive approach that attacks the problem from several directions at once, and one of those absolutely has to be cracking down on businesses that hire illegals.

Look at it this way.

We've had a problem with illegal immigration in the US for decades, and the world hasn't ended.
No solution is going to solve the problem immediately, it will take years, and even then nothing will fix the problem completely.
This is a long-term problem, and it's not going to hurt to take some time to come up with a solution that will actually be effective. It's a far better idea than flailing about spending a ton of money on solutions that don't have a hope of fixing things.
Anyone who says that something has to be done RIGHT NAO!!!!!! is either misinformed, or most likely just trying to get votes.
Click to expand...

When I hear Obama, Bush, McCain or any other pro-illegal say we need comprehensive immigration reform I see it as code for "we need amnesty and we will sucker people with hollow promises of enforcement and we hope that they are dumb enough to fall for it again".
 
PeteEU said:
Which would all be illegal and require prison time and huge fines. Hence people wont do it.

Face it... the problem is that there is too much money to be earned by exploiting illegals now. Make the cost of doing so, so high and the problem will become very small. For example a farmer who hires illegals to pick his fields.. would he do that if he even had a slight chance of getting busted and having his farm taken away from him? I doubt that.

But there is no political will what so ever to do that.. all people want is to punish the illegals while letting the reason the illegals are here.. get away with murder so to say. As long as that is the political climate, then nothing will happen that is in any way productive.

For example. In my home country we have had national ID system for over half a century now and our problem with illegal aliens is very limited since no one can function in society without the national ID. And for those that try, and get busted, the consequences for both parties but especially those that hire illegals is considerable.. everything from a huge fine, to jail and for the real bad ones, having your right to run said business or similar business taken away.
Click to expand...

That's the point that I was making though. It's not the national ID that solves the problem, it's cracking down on businesses that hire illegals, landlords that rent to illegals, etc. A national ID system without decent enforcement will do nothing.
 
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jamesrage said:
When I hear Obama, Bush, McCain or any other pro-illegal say we need comprehensive immigration reform I see it as code for "we need amnesty and we will sucker people with hollow promises of enforcement and we hope that they are dumb enough to fall for it again".
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I said he was right about needing comprehensive immigration reform. Whether he actually means to implement true immigration reform or is just blowing hot air remains to be seen. My hopes aren't high.
 
apdst said:
If Mexicans voted Republican, Obama would be deporting them by the millions and deploy an entire army corps to seal the border so tight a mouse couldn't cross it without two forms of picture ID.
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And your your lord and savior Bush (A Republican) didn't do anything about it.
 
PeteEU said:
So he is a loser because he is right?

Let me ask you this... why did the Republicans not do anything when they had absolute power.... you had 6 years.
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Exactly. They're not going to do anything. They talky a big game. But they did nothing when they had the power.
 
It's not as simple as people wanting to cross the boarder...WHY do these people want to cross the boarder? What has happened to them?
NAFTA (which is both Clinton and Daddy Bush) has pretty much effed these people. Big Agri. Meat packers, etc. take advantage of this situation.

And just simply leaving it to boarder patrol is not the answer. If things are really that bad, they will find a different way in. THey are victims of greed and corruption, not just from their side of the boarder, but ours too.
 
molten_dragon said:
That's the point that I was making though. It's not the national ID that solves the problem, it's cracking down on businesses that hire illegals, landlords that rent to illegals, etc. A national ID system without decent enforcement will do nothing.
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That was implied... national ID makes enforcement much easier, which is my point.
 
jamesrage said:
Why would people who hire illegals look to see if someone has national ID? They are already supposed to verify if the person they are hiring is legal. This national ID is nothing more than a load of crap to give the federal a inch that it will used further intrude into people's lives. And most illegals are paid in cash anyways. Seeing how banks and various property owners do credit checks the best thing to do is to require banks to verify the legal status of those they do business with and send some undercovers posing as illegals once in a while to see if the banks are and property owners are adhering to the new laws.
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Not really, it is just you that dont understand what a real national ID is and what it can do.
 
jamesrage said:
The USA has states bigger than most of those European countries. So it makes sense that you people have a national ID. Your country having individual state IDs would be like one of our states having individual county IDs.
Click to expand...

Talk about an arrogant response lol, and lame excuse. What on EARTH does a countries size have to do with anything? China has a national ID card that is required to get jobs, bank accounts, and tons of other things..
 
PeteEU said:
So he is a loser because he is right?

Let me ask you this... why did the Republicans not do anything when they had absolute power.... you had 6 years.
Click to expand...

Obama is holding enforcement of the border hostage. Kyl accused Obama of saying that exactly and Obama like the coward he is ran away from ever denying it himself.
 
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