Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

The only way to solve illegal immigration, or really any problem, is with both the carrot and the stick. Just going only for enforcement won't work. It would just be like another "war on drugs"- a giant hole you can pour money and civil rights into without ever making a dent in it...

The real solution is FIRST to set up a path to legality that you want people to follow. Maybe a guest worker program with a path to citizenship that is far longer than the normal avenue, where they are paying taxes, but still ineligible for most social services. Then you tighten up the border, although it's true that is pretty futile given how long our border is and how much legal traffic goes over it. Then you give that like 6 months for people to come out of hiding and get signed up. Only then do you increase enforcement. You use enforcement to go after the straglers, not as your primary approach. It's ludicrously impossible to try to locate and physically capture 10 million people who don't want to be caught... We could spend our whole GDP on it and never get half of them. They live here, have jobs and families and cars and places to live here. They're not just going to up and leave and there are too many to catch, so the only option is to give them a viable option then nudge them towards that. Just beating on them when they have no viable option is just brutality for the sake of brutality.

PeteEU said:

So he is a loser because he is right?

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No, it's Obama.

He's a loser because, yet once again, he's wrong.

There's no need to give the Invading Horde amnesty, not at all. Politics isn't the reason the Invading Horde doesn't have amnesty. The fact that the people of the United States doesn't want their politicians giving the Invading Horde amnesty is why the Invading Horde is still illegal.

PeteEU said:

Let me ask you this... why did the Republicans not do anything when they had absolute power.... you had 6 years.

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Because you're doing nothing here but demonstrating both your ignorance of the reality of politics in the United States and your willingness to swallow the guff the enemies of the Republic publish in their propaganda efforts to harm the US.

teamosil said:

The only way to solve illegal immigration, or really any problem, is with both the carrot and the stick. Just going only for enforcement won't work.

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Sure, it can work.

Use a big enough stick, make sure it connects solidly with the dangling fruits, and the problem folds over and can be hauled away in the trash.

In this case, the sticks to be used are:

Fences, mine fields, Predator Drones, active duty US Army forces with full authority to shoot back and to intrude into Mexican space as required, and active law enforcement participation in every city in every state.

The dangling fruits are the employers of the Invaders, who, by law, are already required to recieve proof of legal residence before hiring anyone, and the current expenditure of federal dollars on so-called "sanctuary cities". Since sanctuary cities are violating federal law, those cities, and ALL PEOPLE LIVING IN THEM, should be denied access to federal funds until their cities comply with federal law.

There's gonna be a million pissed off welfare parasites when that rule hits the fruits, let me tell ya.

You sure you want to stick with your silly claim that sticks won't do the task?

Allow REAL AMERICANS to address the issue, and the matter of the illegal invasion of the United State by Mexico will be something for the history books.

teamosil said:

It would just be like another "war on drugs"- a giant hole you can pour money and civil rights into without ever making a dent in it...

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All we're doing now is pouring money down the hole, may as well start pourin the money down the proper holes and fix the real problems.

teamosil said:

The real solution is FIRST to set up a path to legality that you want people to follow.

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ABSO-LUTE-LY!!!!!

The path to legal US residence and subsequent citizenship starts...

...at the sidewalk in front of the US Embassy in the nation of origin of the would be immigrant.

And no where else.

One of the potholes on that path will be the sworn statement, made under penalty of perjury, that the applicant has never violated any law of the United States, includin specifically that he has never been in the United States in violation of the law. Lying on this form will be punished by no less than five years in prison and permanent deportation, and revocation of any and all citizenship and legal residency status of any immediate family members.

That's how the path to legal US citizenship starts.

Another pothole on that path will be the criminal background records check of the applicant. No more should we accept the world's dregs. We don't need 'em, we've already got plenty of Obama voters.


US citizenship isn't a bus token, it's not a something that's you get by picking up a floating duckie in a fairground pond. It's a valuable privilege, and should not be given away to law-breakers who's first act in the United States was disrespect for our laws.

molten_dragon said:

He's absolutely right too. 'Securing the border' (whatever that means) will never solve our immigration problems on its own. To really make a difference, we need exactly what he said, a comprehensive approach that attacks the problem from several directions at once, and one of those absolutely has to be cracking down on businesses that hire illegals.

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When the Messiah says a "comprehensive" approach is needed for "immigration reform", that's just because he's physically unable to say the word "amnesty".

That's all.

He made a speech demanding an amnesty bill because the press has been spending too much time focusing on his incompetence with the Gulf oil spill, and his slide in the polls is bruising his community organizer eqo. And, as purest politics, he needs to mobilize the hispanic crowd to get out and vote for the Democrats because otherwise the 1994 Congressional turnaround is going to look like a Democrat victory, compared to what's going to happen this November.

Purest politics, and that incompetent boob in the White House has no desire, not in the least, to send a single illegal alien home or prevent a single illegal alien from coming in.

TheNextEra said:

And your your lord and savior Bush (A Republican) didn't do anything about it.

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And that's the dichotomy people love to pretend exists, the division between "Republicans" and "Democrats", where the real division is between "Progressives" and "Americans".

Bush, pick one, is a "Progressive", not an American.

Clinton, both the Rapist and the Red Queen, are "Progressives", and hence, not Americans.

Americans want the border controlled.

Americans want the Invaders sent home.

Americans want the people who aid and abet the Invaders to be punished.

Progressives want the United States to fail.

PeteEU said:

That was implied... national ID makes enforcement much easier, which is my point.

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National ID exists in the United States.

The progressives have successfully prevented the Department of Homeland Security from having access to the Socialist Security Administration's and the employer data files and the national birth and death records to cross check, with the state DMV records, to identify the illegals and the people employing them.

We have the technology, we need to kick the roadblocks out of office.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Fences, mine fields, Predator Drones, active duty US Army forces with full authority to shoot back and to intrude into Mexican space as required, and active law enforcement participation in every city in every state.

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LOL. Yeah... Death penalty with no due process as a response to illegal immigration... Maybe in Nazi Germany they would have gone for that, but not so much here....

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

All we're doing now is pouring money down the hole, may as well start pourin the money down the proper holes and fix the real problems.

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Why would you opt for pouring money into a hole with no hope of fixing the problem when there is an easy, cheap, and effective solution available?

The_Patriot said:

The best way to fix illegal immigration is to get rid of the welfare/warfare state and not many politicians from the one party with two names will dismantle it.

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Very true.

One of the essential elements of any effective immigration reform is the elimination of the subsidies for our indigenous indigents, which in turn will drastically remove the demand for foreign unskilled labor. After all, our public schools are expert at producing millions of new unskilled workers every year. They should be allowed the opportunity to demonstrate the value of their education.

teamosil said:

LOL. Yeah... Death penalty with no due process as a response to illegal immigration... Maybe in Nazi Germany they would have gone for that, but not so much here....

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Every nation has the authority to use deadly force to defend it's borders.

And naturally you immediately had to rush to the Nazi comparison because you can't rationally defend your position.

If people don't want to be shot at or blown up while trying to enter this country illegally, then they have every choice to not enter the country illegally, in which case they shall not be shot at.

That's not complicated, not at all.

teamosil said:

Why would you opt for pouring money into a hole with no hope of fixing the problem when there is an easy, cheap, and effective solution available?

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The cheap effective solution is widely dispersed anti-personnel explosives. The buzzards have to eat, same as the worms.

Amazing what an effective deterrent land mines are, when used properly.

Zyphlin said:

Absolutely incorrect. First, you're using selective hearing which brings your entire argument to a screetching hault. It is not "Secure the Border", Its "Secure the Border FIRST". There is nothing in any stance of the Republican Party that says "The only solution to the Immigration is Border Security". Additionally, you are also indulging in the fallacy of the President in the notion that "Comprehensive" means it must happen all at the same time.

We do need comprehenisive immigration reform, however it needs to be staggered.

The first and biggest issue is beginning to secure our border. The second biggest issue is enforcing our current laws on the books against illegals and against the business that hire them.

Make it more difficult to come in, and make it less attractive to come in, thus by default slowing the influx of people into the country. Then, and only then, should we move onto the notion of what we should do in regards to the millions already here. Once we have that determined we can then look into revamping our immigration policy in such a way that it discourages illegal immigration while also fulfilling our economic needs.

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Oh, there's no question there.

If they came in illegally, they can leave and get at the back of the line and wait their turn to come back.

That's that'.

TheNextEra said:

Yep, soo much anger that they voted for him again in 2004. Yep, that's a lot of anger :doh

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Get with the program, mate.

Americans aren't stupid.

They knew perfectly well that if they didn't vote for Bush, the Evil Progressive, they were going to get stuck with Kerry, the Evil Progressive Purple Heart Pansy Gigolo from Taxachusetts.

The Americans didn't have any choice, there.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

And naturally you immediately had to rush to the Nazi comparison because you can't rationally defend your position.

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Oh right... Like "KILL EM ALL!" is a rational position...

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

The cheap effective solution is widely dispersed anti-personnel explosives. The buzzards have to eat, same as the worms.

Amazing what an effective deterrent land mines are, when used properly.

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So you have no real answer? You concede that there is no rational basis for your belief, but here you are still advocating it?

TheNextEra said:

Funny, because the bashing has been all about Obama like this immigration thing is completely his fault and no other presidents in the past.

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The Messiah decided to push for amnesty, so guess what?

Now it's all his fault.

That's how easy it is.

Perhaps if he tried to resolve the problem instead pushing to make the problem worse, the Americans would give him the benefit of the doubt.

Since the Community Organizer decided to make a major policy speech advocation the exact WORST thing to do, he's bought the whole issue.

teamosil said:

Oh right... Like "KILL EM ALL!" is a rational position...

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No, just kill the ones crossing the border.

And, yes, that's the rational position.

If the Invaders are irrational enough to want to intrude on geography interdicted by lethal force, then it would be completely irrational to allow them to proceed unopposed.

Mad dogs exist to be shot. People who don't shoot mad dogs deserve to be bitten.

I see no reason to allow my children to be bitten by mad dog intruders from Mexico.

I'm rational.

teamosil said:

So you have no real answer?

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What, you want to pretend you haven't read my posts, or are you simply posting blindly and really haven't read them?

Enforcing border security EFFECTIVELY is an essential and major component of any policy addressing the reversal of the Invasion of the United States by Mexico.

Period.

Nations that allow themselves to be overrun by neighbors cease to exist. Hence people who promote or support such an invasion are either irrational or traitors.

Defending the nation's border is the rational position.

BTW, I'm a US military vet, I've no problems with killing the enemies of the Republic.

When you grow up and learn some real history, you might understand.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Invaders...Mad dogs...children to be bitten by mad dog intruders from Mexico.

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:

I'm rational.

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Not really making a great case for your second point in your first one there kiddo.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

What, you want to pretend you haven't read my posts, or are you simply posting blindly and really haven't read them?

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You haven't presented any disadvantage to a guest worker program, just some emotional comments about how you feel about illegal immigrants and a lot of fantasizing about killing Mexicans...

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Nations that allow themselves to be overrun by neighbors cease to exist.

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Um, the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been going down for years... Overrun... Cease to exist... Get real.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

I've no problems with killing the enemies of the Republic.

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What am I supposed to say to that? You consider families moving here to be "enemies of the Republic" and "mad dogs" and whatnot... Sounds like out of control paranoia, likely with a strong dose of racism to me.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

No, just kill the ones crossing the border.

And, yes, that's the rational position.

If the Invaders are irrational enough to want to intrude on geography interdicted by lethal force, then it would be completely irrational to allow them to proceed unopposed.

Mad dogs exist to be shot. People who don't shoot mad dogs deserve to be bitten.

I see no reason to allow my children to be bitten by mad dog intruders from Mexico.

I'm rational.




What, you want to pretend you haven't read my posts, or are you simply posting blindly and really haven't read them?

Enforcing border security EFFECTIVELY is an essential and major component of any policy addressing the reversal of the Invasion of the United States by Mexico.

Period.

Nations that allow themselves to be overrun by neighbors cease to exist. Hence people who promote or support such an invasion are either irrational or traitors.

Defending the nation's border is the rational position.

BTW, I'm a US military vet, I've no problems with killing the enemies of the Republic.

When you grow up and learn some real history, you might understand.

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Is this you? I think it just might be...

teamosil said:

Not really making a great case for your second point in your first one there kiddo.

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Outside of the fact that you're writing in sentence fragments, you're not refuting anything at all.

teamosil said:

You haven't presented any disadvantage to a guest worker program, just some emotional comments about how you feel about illegal immigrants and a lot of fantasizing about killing Mexicans...

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I don't need to present any disadvantages to a program we don't need.

What's the purpose of a "guest worker program"? Why to allow industry to hire workers for less money than the pool of native workers are willing to subscribe to. Hence, a "guest worker program" automatically undercuts prevailing local wages and, unless there's nearly 100% employment in the NATION, the importation of foreign nationals does nothing except exlude locals from job opportunities.

If an employer needs a task performed, and the local talent isn't willing to work for the wages offered, then the prospective employer needs to increase his offered wage until his hiring needs are met. Frankly, if a strawberry grower can't find pickers in Santa Maria, California, then he needs to be looking for employees from New York, Maine, or any of the other states, before he considers hiring aliens.

teamosil said:

Um, the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been going down for years... Overrun... Cease to exist... Get real.

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No, the number of illegals in the nation has been rising for decades. (Hint: A decade is ten times longer than a year). What, you think the Invaders come over, at great expense and personal risk, spend a season picking lettuce, then GO BACK?

teamosil said:

What am I supposed to say to that?

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I'm not a Democratic Party Leader and thus have no expertise at putting words in people's mouths so they don't have to use their brains.

teamosil said:

You consider families moving here to be "enemies of the Republic" and "mad dogs" and whatnot... Sounds like out of control paranoia, likely with a strong dose of racism to me.

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Yes, I consider people who enter this country with the deliberate intent to break this nation's laws is an enemy of the Republic. I also recognize those natives who supports these invaders to be enemies of the Nation. It's really not complicated. If someone is promoting the dissolution of the United States, he's an enemy.

Ah, yes, "racism", the argumental equivalent of the word "Nazi". You've shot that arrow, too.

Should I play the "some of my best friends are Mexican" card now, or hold it for later?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

I don't need to present any disadvantages to a program we don't need.

What's the purpose of a "guest worker program"?

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To get them paying taxes is the biggest reason. Right now there is basically a big tax exemption for illegal immigrants. Why continue that?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

No, the number of illegals in the nation has been rising for decades. (Hint: A decade is ten times longer than a year).

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I'm not sure what you're saying with that hint... It has increased decade-to-decade for a while, but I said the number of illegal immigrants in the country has been increasing for years... So what you are claiming doesn't even contradict that... You know the number has been falling for 2-3 years, right? We're down almost 2 million from where we were just 3 years ago.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

If someone is promoting the dissolution of the United States, he's an enemy.

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LOL. Drama queen much?

teamosil said:

To get them paying taxes is the biggest reason. R

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You mean as opposed to opening those jobs to lawfull residents who are being denied jobs, and thus not paying taxes? I'm not opposed to getting Americans in those jobs so Americans can pay the taxes.

Hmmmmm?

teamosil said:

Right now there is basically a big tax exemption for illegal immigrants. Why continue that?

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Yes, why reward the lawbreaker with permanent legal residency when, by kicking them out, an American can get a job and provide for HIS family, instead?

You seem to want to pretend that my solution of border security and immigration law enforcement doesn't recognize that illegals enter this country to steal jobs from Americans.

Well, that's why they're here, and with a 15% or more real unemployment rate, there's not one single reason to want to let any Invader stay in this country.

teamosil said:

I'm not sure what you're saying with that hint...

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Don't worry, most others will.

teamosil said:

It has increased decade-to-decade for a while, but I said the number of illegal immigrants in the country has been increasing for years...

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No, that's exactly the opposite of what you said.

"Um, the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been going down for years... Overrun... Cease to exist... Get real."

FYI, the phrase "going down", when you're outside of San Francisco, means "decreasing", not "increasing", though we can see way that concept might be confused in San Francisco.

teamosil said:

So what you are claiming doesn't even contradict that... You know the number has been falling for 2-3 years, right? We're down almost 2 million from where we were just 3 years ago.

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No, the number hasn't been falling. But let's pretend they are. That means, instead of having 30,000,000 illegal Mexican criminals in the US, we now have 28,000,000 illegal Mexican criminals in the United States, which is 28,000,000 illegal Mexican criminals too many.

When the number gets down to 1 illegal Mexican criminal in the United States, that will mean there's 1 too many illegal Mexican criminals in the Nation.

The Left has zero tolerance on first graders drawing pictures of Army soldiers carrying rifles.

Americans have zero tolerance for illegal Mexican criminals.

teamosil said:

LOL. Drama queen much?

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No, I don't live in the City by the Bay.

Jetboogieman said:

Is this you? I think it just might be...

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Kind of over the top isn't it Jet?

You aren't suggesting that people who want the border enforced are all gun crazed hermits do you? Because judging from the polls that would be a majority of the country.

texmaster said:

Kind of over the top isn't it Jet?

You aren't suggesting that people who want the border enforced are all gun crazed hermits do you? Because judging from the polls that would be a majority of the country.

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Securing the border is one thing... killing innocents to do it is something else entirely...

I doubt the "Majority" of the population supports THAT!

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

You mean as opposed to opening those jobs to lawfull residents who are being denied jobs, and thus not paying taxes? I'm not opposed to getting Americans in those jobs so Americans can pay the taxes.

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If citizens wanted those jobs they could take them right now. Any employer would prefer to hire a documented worker obviously. No. The opposite would happen. There are entire industries that could not survive in the US without undocumented workers, and those industries employ citizens. Remove the undocumented workers, you remove those jobs.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Yes, why reward the lawbreaker with permanent legal residency when, by kicking them out, an American can get a job and provide for HIS family, instead?

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I mean, if magic were an option, sure, I'd want them all kicked out despite the economic hit. But magic isn't real. You can't just wish them away... It costs us $113k per person we deport presently, and that's mostly ones who are already in the system... The cost goes way up as you start trying to actually find people out in the world. Even if the cost stayed at $113k, it woud still cost us over $1 trillion to deport all the illegal immigrants... In reality, we could spend easily $5 trillion just to get half of them...

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

FYI, the phrase "going down", when you're outside of San Francisco, means "decreasing", not "increasing", though we can see way that concept might be confused in San Francisco.

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Oh, lol. I meant to say decreasing. Which it has been:

that the nation's illegal immigrant population has declined by nearly 1 million has sharpened the debate over whether to legalize those remaining or allow their numbers to shrink through attrition.

The number of illegal immigrants living in the United States dropped to 10.8 million in 2009 from 11.6 million in 2008, marking the second consecutive year of decline and the sharpest decrease in at least three decades, according to a report this week by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Illegal immigrant numbers plunge - Los Angeles Times

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:

No, the number hasn't been falling. But let's pretend they are. That means, instead of having 30,000,000 illegal Mexican criminals in the US, we now have 28,000,000 illegal Mexican criminals in the United States, which is 28,000,000 illegal Mexican criminals too many.

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LOL. 28 million... Wherever you are getting your information about the world from is not a credible source.... We're down to about 10 million...

PeteEU said:

actually there is a way to almost fix it 100%.. but the US is not ready to go that way... it is called a national ID that is required for everything from having a bank account, drivers license to owning and renting homes to getting a job or go to school.

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Exactly like Mexico has.

Without the IFE card you can't do anything. Nobody accepts a drivers license for anything.