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Thread: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    So because Bush didn't do enough that means Obama gets a pass when he does nothing?

    Sorry, doesn't excuse his inaction.
    Republicans don't want reform, not now anyway. That is clear.
    washingtonpost.com

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yeah Bush only had 4 years to do something about it before idiots voted him in again in 2004, unlike Obama who hasn't had that long. But hey, whatever makes you feel better about bashing Obama on immigration issues.
    When your option is "Someone that is ****ty about Immigration" with regards to Bush and "Someone that is ****ty about Immigration" in regards to Kerry, then guess what TNE...

    I know this is going to BLOW your mind....

    You don't vote basd on their immigration records becuase they're BOTH ****ty and thus you move onto issues where they're different.

    Strikingly amazing I know.

    Get off your idiotic high horse about "feeling beter about Bashing Obama on immigratnoi issues".

    I bashed Bush, repeatedly, on Immigration as well. This has nothing to do with Obama, it has to do with ****ty Policy

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Magill View Post
    Republicans don't want reform, not now anyway. That is clear.
    washingtonpost.com
    Based on what?

    Barack Obama saying they won't do HIS STYLE of Reform and therefore that equals "not wanting reform".

    Absolutely bull****. Gotta love the man ushering in the "post partisan era".

    Saying "Do it my way or you're showing you don't want to do it at all" for one, isn't bipartisan, and for two, is a fallacy.

    Not wanting to do it how Obama wants to do it, which is passing it all at one comprehensively (something history has shown doesn't necessarily mean its going to be enforced comprehensively), is not the same as not wanting reform.

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    This has nothing to do with Obama, it has to do with ****ty Policy
    Funny, because the bashing has been all about Obama like this immigration thing is completely his fault and no other presidents in the past.

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Funny, because the bashing has been all about Obama like this immigration thing is completely his fault and no other presidents in the past.
    Really? Please highlight the posts of mine in particular that shows the bashing to be all about Obama like this immigration thing is completely his fault?

    Or are you completely and erroniously making a suggestion, born on ignorance of the existance of multiple discussions over years upon years, that someone making a single post in a single thread about a specific topic specifically about Obama who does not say something about every other previous president must be implying that its all the subject of the threads fault.

    Are you suggesting TNE that if you've posted in any thread anywhere ever concerning our displeasure with an individual that if you did not list every single solitary person that you are also have felt displeasure with at any given time that you are dishonestly suggesting that the person you were initially talking about is the ONLY person to have done the thing that displeased you?

    Please, that's ridiculous, and idiotic.

    I, and others, spoke about Obama in this thread because...wait for it......waiiiiit for it.....

    THIS THREADS TOPIC IS OBAMA

    I know, shocking, people wanting to actually stay on topic. An awe struck notion.

    More to the point, this thread is on the topic of OBAMA suggesting "politics are to blame for immigration delay".

    Funny, not "Bush" suggesting. Not "Clinton Suggesting". Not "Reagan Suggesting". But "Obama suggesting".

    Yes, how dare we stay on topic and speak about the person the threads actually about.

    Right now, in the present, on this day, George Bush has no power over immigration...and thank god at that. Guess who does? Barack Obama. Guess who actually is speaking about Immigration? Barack Obama. Guess who then the focus is on. Barack Obama.

    Guess what, 3 years ago when Bush was pushing Immigration guess what president was talked about? I'll give you a clue. It wasn't Bill Clinton, it wasn't Bush I, it wasn't Jimmy Carter, and it was barely Reagan and only in regards to his errors. It was Bush.

    Woah! What's this? You mean when Bush was President and Bush was doing things with immigration people talked about George Bush? Parish the thought, what unbelievable notion is this?!

    But see, Bush is history, he's gone, he's irrelevant when it comes to immigration now. However a view similar to his mistaken view point, which was ridiculed, insulted, and protested against by Conservatives and Republicans, is being pushed by Barack Obama. And since it is Obama pushing it currently, its relevant to talk about Obama now.

    Hmm, let us go find a thread complaining about Michael Steele saying something absolutely stupid. Lets make sure we don't post in that thread unless we comment on every single politician that has ever said anything stupid ever anytime anywhere, or else TNE may suggest that the bashing is "all about steele" as if only michael steele who ever said anything stupid and not any other politician in the past.



    Obama is pushing a failed political plan. Bush didn't even other to try to push it when he had his party in power because they wouldn't go for it. He tried to push it when Democrats were in power and were fought by republicans, some democrats, and the American people. Now Obama is trying to push it and like Bush is being stopped. Due to being stopped he is playing partisan politics by attempting to suggest that republicans are singularly to blame for the delay which ignores the notion that he could pass this with minimal if any Republican backing and that he himself is just as responsible for the delay as the republicans as he refuses to move off of "all at once" comprehensive reform. Thus, despite his misrepresentation, it is his stubbornness along with the republicans that is to blame for immigration delay and it is impossible for him to suggest that it is just one sides fault without playing the partisan politic games he's hypocritically accusing Republicans of.

    Comprehensive Immigration Reform failed once before, and there's no reason we should be the definition of insanity, attempting something again and expecting a different result.

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely incorrect. First, you're using selective hearing which brings your entire argument to a screetching hault. It is not "Secure the Border", Its "Secure the Border FIRST". There is nothing in any stance of the Republican Party that says "The only solution to the Immigration is Border Security".
    You're right on this part, I misread the OP. There are plenty of people though that seem to think all we have to do is build a border fence and station some armed guards and that'll solve the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Additionally, you are also indulging in the fallacy of the President in the notion that "Comprehensive" means it must happen all at the same time.

    We do need comprehenisive immigration reform, however it needs to be staggered.

    The first and biggest issue is beginning to secure our border. The second biggest issue is enforcing our current laws on the books against illegals and against the business that hire them.

    Make it more difficult to come in, and make it less attractive to come in, thus by default slowing the influx of people into the country. Then, and only then, should we move onto the notion of what we should do in regards to the millions already here. Once we have that determined we can then look into revamping our immigration policy in such a way that it discourages illegal immigration while also fulfilling our economic needs.

    If you do it "comprehenisvely" as the President and Democrats wish, which is doing it all in a single bill, then what you will likely have is a repeat of history. In the 1980's we tried comprehensive reform. We passed amnesty along side greater enforcement of the law.

    Guess which of those two happened?

    Guess which of those two didn't?

    I'm not going to be blind and deaf to history, and neither should anyone else. Democrats have screwed us once, they don't get a free second try. You want your comprehensive reform? Alright. You get it in stages. The first stage is secure, the second stage is enforce, the third stage can be the path, and the fourth will be reform.
    I won't say you're wrong, but it's arguable. I'm not sure that passing the law piecemeal will actually get better results than passing everything at once.

    Even if it is passed piecemeal, I think it's better to start with enforcement than securing the border. I think it's a more effective way to combat the problem. Securing the border would only cut down on the numbers of illegals getting in to the country. It would do nothing to the ones already here. Greater enforcement (especially against businesses that hire illegals) would both reduce the number of illegals in the country AND cut down the number of illegals coming to the US. If you make it unattractive for them to come here (i.e. hard to find a job, hard to find housing, a good chance of getting caught and serving jail time), they won't.
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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    You're right on this part, I misread the OP. There are plenty of people though that seem to think all we have to do is build a border fence and station some armed guards and that'll solve the problem.

    I won't say you're wrong, but it's arguable. I'm not sure that passing the law piecemeal will actually get better results than passing everything at once.

    Even if it is passed piecemeal, I think it's better to start with enforcement than securing the border. I think it's a more effective way to combat the problem. Securing the border would only cut down on the numbers of illegals getting in to the country. It would do nothing to the ones already here. Greater enforcement (especially against businesses that hire illegals) would both reduce the number of illegals in the country AND cut down the number of illegals coming to the US. If you make it unattractive for them to come here (i.e. hard to find a job, hard to find housing, a good chance of getting caught and serving jail time), they won't.
    Honestly I wouldn't care if it was:

    1. Enforce 2. Secure 3. Those here 4. Reform

    instead of

    1. secure 2. Enforce 3. Those here 4. Reform

    as long as 1 and 2 are some combination of protect and enforce.

    If you don't cut off the flow, and that's what securing and enforcing does, then you can NOT begin to deal with those in the country or reform our immigration policy because by the time you get to the point of enforcing and securing you're going to have a similar problem as there's suddenly lots more illegals in the country.

    But I would absolutely no issue if we started enforcing the laws and then securing the borders. The only reason I think securing should come first is because I believe it will be a longer process then enforcing the laws to get it to a reasonable point so I'd like to see it get started first, with enforcement literally right on its heels. But the other way is fine too.

    However I would never be able to get behind ANY legislation that gives a path to citizenship, amnesty, etc to any illegals in this country without seeing enforcement and security actually passed and actually happening in practice first. That whole once bitten twice shy thing.

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Nope it doesn't excuse his actions,
    inaction

    but it is funny watching conservatives and Republicans who voted for Bush again in 2004 (Giving him a free pass) whine and cry about Obama doing the same thing.

    Your feigned outrage is noted.
    Right because Kerry would have been such a border warrior. Spare us your fantasy choice.

    And the subject is Obama, not Bush. Nice try at a dodge.
    Last edited by texmaster; 07-03-10 at 01:38 PM.
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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Magill View Post
    Republicans don't want reform, not now anyway. That is clear.
    washingtonpost.com
    No we want the border secured. You know, what the majority of the people want in the US?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Obama says politics to blame for immigration delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However I would never be able to get behind ANY legislation that gives a path to citizenship, amnesty, etc to any illegals in this country without seeing enforcement and security actually passed and actually happening in practice first. That whole once bitten twice shy thing.
    I agree with you 100% on this part.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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