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Thread: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

  1. #251
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Apparently arguing in favor of having the law changed, according to Tex, is illegal in and of itself. Which means every single Republican who wants to get rid of the health care program is a criminal! Who knew?!!!

    As an aside: Anyone notice that the case that is being debated here in the OP is remarkably similar to the issue that the GOP is criticizing Kagan for -- not letting a group that discriminates have access? I guess Kagan's view has just been validated by the highest court in the land. Glad to see she's so wise when it comes to the Constitution.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    A religious organization shouldn't be receiving government money, to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Let me demonstrate how you are being dishonest. It is actually quite easy. Here is your sentence: "If partial birth abortion is breaking the law in a state that bans it and you believe in it you are advocating breaking the law." Look at the two words I placed in bold. You are using them as synomyms and they are NOT. One can believe in something and NOT advocate it, if we consider advocating to be acting on that belief. This is why your entire argument is nothing but a dishonest attempt to make a point. I can believe in anything that I want. That does NOT equal advocating it. It also does NOT equal acting on it. Murder is illegal in my state. I would like to murder pedophiles. Is my belief/desire illegal, tex? Does that equal advocating the murder of pedophiles? No to both questions. You are playing idiotic sematical games, nothing more, and that is why your argument is being met with such dismissal . Try to use an analogy that both makes sense and is a logical comparison, WITHOUT equivocating by using incorrect words.
    Great post. Great clarity.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Its not an appeal to emotion. Its an appeal to logic. You cannot claim to support a law that says you cannot descriminate against people then turn around and do exactly that based on your own personal morality.
    The difference is that, at least in some states, queers are a protected group, like "women" or "African-Americans". Legally, I can discriminate against you for any reason I want, unless that discrimination is specifically outlawed. I can refuse to hire you because you don't speak spanish, because the law doesn't say anything about language. I can't, however, refuse to hire you because you're Mexican. The law says it is illegal to refuse to hire someone because of their national origin. There is no law that says I can't discriminate against you because your sexual preference includes minors, while there are laws saying I can't discriminate against you because your sexual preference includes other males of legal age.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The difference is that, at least in some states, queers are a protected group, like "women" or "African-Americans". Legally, I can discriminate against you for any reason I want, unless that discrimination is specifically outlawed. I can refuse to hire you because you don't speak spanish, because the law doesn't say anything about language. I can't, however, refuse to hire you because you're Mexican. The law says it is illegal to refuse to hire someone because of their national origin. There is no law that says I can't discriminate against you because your sexual preference includes minors, while there are laws saying I can't discriminate against you because your sexual preference includes other males of legal age.
    I think you are being disingenuous. You don't honestly struggle with this, do you?
    You are saying that you see discrimination in the job market because people are allowed to stipulate that they want, your example, someone who can speak Spanish. You think that that is the same as saying that they don't want to employ Mexicans. Do you really believe that seeking a new employee with a particular skill or experience is the same as seeking someone with the right skin colour or ethnicity?

    And on the sexual orientation issue, well, I thinking you are trolling here a bit. You are saying that protecting LGBT people from discrimination is the same as permitting the sexual abuse of children. Your argument is basically homosexual=paedophile, is it?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think you are being disingenuous. You don't honestly struggle with this, do you?
    You have me all wrong here.


    You are saying that you see discrimination in the job market because people are allowed to stipulate that they want, your example, someone who can speak Spanish. You think that that is the same as saying that they don't want to employ Mexicans. Do you really believe that seeking a new employee with a particular skill or experience is the same as seeking someone with the right skin colour or ethnicity?
    If a Mexican foods market refuses to hire me because I don't speak Spanish, they're technically discriminating against me because of me not speaking Spanish. However, it is a form of discrimination that is completely justifiable and that I would agree with. What I'm saying is that there are justified and unjustified forms of discrimination. Not hiring a Mexican is unjustified discrimination, and the law reflects that. If I refused to hire you because you're Spanish, I could face criminal charges (again, this is a practice I agree with). If I didn't get hired at a Mexican market for not speaking Spanish, no one could blame the store. I'm saying there is acceptable and unacceptable discrimination.

    And on the sexual orientation issue, well, I thinking you are trolling here a bit. You are saying that protecting LGBT people from discrimination is the same as permitting the sexual abuse of children. Your argument is basically homosexual=paedophile, is it?
    Did you just see "he's talking about gays and pedos, he must be equating them?" No. How did you even get that from what I'm saying? I'm saying it's only illegal to discriminate against someone if they're on a list of protected person groups. The law says it is illegal to discriminate against someone if they're homosexual. However, not all discrimination is illegal and it would be legal to discriminate against someone if they're a pedophile.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    If a Mexican foods market refuses to hire me because I don't speak Spanish, they're technically discriminating against me because of me not speaking Spanish. However, it is a form of discrimination that is completely justifiable and that I would agree with. What I'm saying is that there are justified and unjustified forms of discrimination. Not hiring a Mexican is unjustified discrimination, and the law reflects that. If I refused to hire you because you're Spanish, I could face criminal charges (again, this is a practice I agree with). If I didn't get hired at a Mexican market for not speaking Spanish, no one could blame the store. I'm saying there is acceptable and unacceptable discrimination.
    Uhmm, no. If they didn't hire you because you weren't Mexican, then you'd have something. Would it be discrimination for not hiring you to fly a plane if you didn't know how too? Language is a learned skill, not something you were born with.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Uhmm, no. If they didn't hire you because you weren't Mexican, then you'd have something. Would it be discrimination for not hiring you to fly a plane if you didn't know how too? Language is a learned skill, not something you were born with.
    I'm not using discrimination in a negative way here. I'm using it to mean any situation where any single thing is used as a deciding factor. It would be discrimination to not hire me to fly a plane, but it'd be justifiable discrimination.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I'm not using discrimination in a negative way here. I'm using it to mean any situation where any single thing is used as a deciding factor. It would be discrimination to not hire me to fly a plane, but it'd be justifiable discrimination.
    I understand that, but it's not discrimination to not hire you for something you are not qualified for.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I understand that, but it's not discrimination to not hire you for something you are not qualified for.
    The point I was trying to make is that there are legal and illegal reasons to not hire someone. It is illegal to not hire someone on basis of any reason on a special legal list. I know that we have that list printed on a poster in our breakroom at work. It's only illegal discrimination if it's one of those reasons, other than that you can discriminate for any reason you want. Let's just forget my speaking spanish example.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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