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Thread: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

  1. #141
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    But that doesn't force them to adhere to its message and proclaim it as their own. CLS should have used a similar requirement instead fo requiring peopel to actually adhere to their message.
    The difference seems fairly arbitrary to me. Does it really make a difference if CLS is exluding gays because they "exhibit disregard...etc" or if they exclude gays because they won't sign a paper saying they aren't gay prior to joining?

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    The difference seems fairly arbitrary to me. Does it really make a difference if CLS is exluding gays because they "exhibit disregard...etc" or if they exclude gays because they won't sign a paper saying they aren't gay prior to joining?
    Yeah. Exhibiting disregard and a lack of respect to the message implies that the person's presence in the group will be inherently disruptive towards the group and doesn't exclude those who are discretely in disagreement or don't respect the message. The key is that the disregard and lack of respect must be exhibited consistently. It doesn't exclude for ideological nonconformity, it excludes due to overtly opposing the message.

    While CLS's requirement completely excludes discrete disregard and lack of respect from mebership as well because it requires conformity.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  3. #143
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay, this is weird, and I think I'd like to see the actual rules of this club.

    In one instance it seems to be saying that gays could join, they'd just need to sign the same statement all voting members do that state that regards participation or advocacy of immoral lifestyles as inconsistant with the faith beliefs of the club. I would have zero legal issue with this really. It doesn't bar people from joining, but it clearly details the faith of the club and if you don't agree with the clubs views don't join it. Its not KEEPING people from joining, it just means to join you have to agree with the club. To me this would be no different than having a Young Democrats club and requiring voting members to sign a statement that they will not activitly advocate for views inconsistant with the DNC's platform.

    Its that whole free market thing. If you don't want discrimination then you should have to let anyone join, but groups should still be free to have their group views, goals, and activities. If you don't like those activities, don't join it...but know the oppertunity is there.

    If these people were actively just denying the allowance of gays into the group no matter what, even if they repented their participation in the life style daily and signed the faith statement, then it would definitely be discrimination because they are not open admission and the signing statement is obviously just a smokescreen.

    Additionally, if it was found that the group was violating its own rules and standards by arbitrarily enforcing them, allowing people who knowingly were unrepentant participators of sexually immoral lifestyles, such as having premaritial sex, but disallowing homosexuals then I'd say there'd be grounds for the school to revoke their funding as most campus's I've seen have rules regarding the creation of clubs and the gaining of funding that a club must actually be fulfilling its charter....and not upholding its own rules would NOT be fulfilling its charter.

    So this is really tricky and I think i'd need more information.

    Were they actively disallowing gays? Or did they simply have a requirement for voting rights that was done in such a way that it would be difficult for homosexuals to honestly and volunteerly go along with it?
    Wow you really did give this some thought!

    Let's say a bi-law was passed saying homosexuality is a sin. Even if they allowed all homosexuals to join the descrimination would still be there and could be argued since they are singling out a sexual preference for condemnation and therefore could not receive public funding.

    If I were this Christian group I would activly seek out every homosexual group I could find and request to be included. If they denied access then they could say they were now descriminated against and no one would receive funding.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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  4. #144
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Well before the law equal we are all and if a club is seem kind of public money they have to abide by that. And I would also be willing to bet the school has a non discrimination policy
    Nothing in the law says all sexual preferences are to be considered as part of that statement. The only cases have dealt with race not sexual preference.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Norville Rogers
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Yeah. Exhibiting disregard and a lack of respect to the message implies that the person's presence in the group will be inherently disruptive towards the group and doesn't exclude those who are discretely in disagreement or don't respect the message. The key is that the disregard and lack of respect must be exhibited consistently. It doesn't exclude for ideological nonconformity, it excludes due to overtly opposing the message.

    While CLS's requirement completely excludes discrete disregard and lack of respect from mebership as well because it requires conformity.
    Eh - I think that's splitting hairs. The Democratic group's clause was clearly intended to exclude non-democrats from the club, just as the Christian group's oath was intended to exclude non-christians. The opinion and the case focused on whether or not a group could exclude members, not the difference between members who discretely oppose the group's message versus those who overtly oppose the group's message.

  6. #146
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Forgive me for stating the obvious at this late point, but it suddenly struck me. Why would a Christian group wish to discriminate against members?

    I guess they missed 1 Timothy 1:15 during bible study:



    Is the Christian club suggesting that they are without sin?

    If so, then why do they need Christ?



    I can't help but think that they need a remedial class on Jesus 101.
    Still ducking my questions huh Catz. Predictable.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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  7. #147
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Eh - I think that's splitting hairs. The Democratic group's clause was clearly intended to exclude non-democrats from the club, just as the Christian group's oath was intended to exclude non-christians. The opinion and the case focused on whether or not a group could exclude members, not the difference between members who discretely oppose the group's message versus those who overtly oppose the group's message.
    So what if I claimed I was a democrat but most of my beliefs were anything but Democrat in nature. Could I skate by demanding entry under the argument of descrimination?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    So what if I claimed I was a democrat but most of my beliefs were anything but Democrat in nature. Could I skate by demanding entry under the argument of descrimination?
    Sure why not but why do that?

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Sure why not but why do that?
    I'll be volunteering for the Democratic campaign in MN-6, if Texmaster wants to come with me and help me show folks just how much of a lunatic Michelle Bachmann is, he's welcome!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #150
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Sure why not but why do that?
    I think thats exactly what happened here.

    To force a group that doesn't share their views to loose funding.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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