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Thread: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

  1. #111
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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    There could be minimum mandatory issues of decorum at meetings.

    There could be rules regarding showing up to a certain number of events.

    There could be rules regarding being respectful to your fellow members.

    There could be rules regarding behavior at group activities.

    Etc.

    There's a large difference between discriminating in regards to allowing membership based on views and beliefs, and taking action against members whose ACTIONS violate defined rules
    But thats exactly what the christian group said. Homosexuality by its very nature violated the rules they put in place.

    And they were ruled against.

    You can't come up with a law to exclude any person without it being classified as decriminatory.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Isn't that what the christian group said? And they were rejeted funding based off that.
    You know what, I went back and reread this article...

    Interesting, thank you tex...need to gather my thoughts

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    But thats exactly what the christian group said. Homosexuality by its very nature violated the rules they put in place.

    And they were ruled against.

    You can't come up with a law to exclude any person without it being classified as decriminatory.
    They can still have their and the University doesn't have to support it. I bet the Unversity alredy has a policy on homosexuality contrary to the clubs.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    They can still have their and the University doesn't have to support it. I bet the Unversity alredy has a policy on homosexuality contrary to the clubs.
    Right. The point I'm making isn't about the existense of the clubs, its the ability to gain access to public funding without forcing a group to accept all personal choices people make.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You know what, I went back and reread this article...

    Interesting, thank you tex...need to gather my thoughts
    Not a problem.

    If you come up with a law they can make up to get around accepting all forms of behavior I'm all for it. I just don't see how considering the ruling's language about descrimination.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Okay, this is weird, and I think I'd like to see the actual rules of this club.

    In one instance it seems to be saying that gays could join, they'd just need to sign the same statement all voting members do that state that regards participation or advocacy of immoral lifestyles as inconsistant with the faith beliefs of the club. I would have zero legal issue with this really. It doesn't bar people from joining, but it clearly details the faith of the club and if you don't agree with the clubs views don't join it. Its not KEEPING people from joining, it just means to join you have to agree with the club. To me this would be no different than having a Young Democrats club and requiring voting members to sign a statement that they will not activitly advocate for views inconsistant with the DNC's platform.

    Its that whole free market thing. If you don't want discrimination then you should have to let anyone join, but groups should still be free to have their group views, goals, and activities. If you don't like those activities, don't join it...but know the oppertunity is there.

    If these people were actively just denying the allowance of gays into the group no matter what, even if they repented their participation in the life style daily and signed the faith statement, then it would definitely be discrimination because they are not open admission and the signing statement is obviously just a smokescreen.

    Additionally, if it was found that the group was violating its own rules and standards by arbitrarily enforcing them, allowing people who knowingly were unrepentant participators of sexually immoral lifestyles, such as having premaritial sex, but disallowing homosexuals then I'd say there'd be grounds for the school to revoke their funding as most campus's I've seen have rules regarding the creation of clubs and the gaining of funding that a club must actually be fulfilling its charter....and not upholding its own rules would NOT be fulfilling its charter.

    So this is really tricky and I think i'd need more information.

    Were they actively disallowing gays? Or did they simply have a requirement for voting rights that was done in such a way that it would be difficult for homosexuals to honestly and volunteerly go along with it?

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Right. The point I'm making isn't about the existense of the clubs, its the ability to gain access to public funding without forcing a group to accept all personal choices people make.
    Well before the law equal we are all and if a club is seem kind of public money they have to abide by that. And I would also be willing to bet the school has a non discrimination policy
    Last edited by winston53660; 06-30-10 at 03:03 PM.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    And really, what it comes down to in regards to discrimination for me is this...

    There are federal, and then there are state, laws in regards to protected status's. Gender, Religion, handicap, ethnicity, etc are routinely part of this. In many states sexual orientation is also one (I'm blanking, is it one in regards to federal law?).

    If you're going to say that all clubs must be fully open and that you have a non-discrimination rule in regards to campus clubs to get campus funding, then my view would be that no club for any reason...no matter if someone thought it was a "legit" reason or not...could discriminate against people of the protected groups denoted as such by federal, and that state's, laws.

    This means you could have a club that discriminates for membership in regards to political views, GPA, hobbies, etc. However you could not have clubs getting funding discriminating based on race, or male or female, or potentially straight/gay.

    However, that would not keep such clubs from being able to be formed and recognized, only not recieving money.

    So its one of those things where if you're going to go with a non-discrimination policy, go with a standard that's already essentially defined in the law.

    Ultimately, as i said, it wouldn't matter, as just about any particular protected group could be defacto discriminated against in regards to a club by tailoring the clubs activities and rules in such a way that its just not attractive to those outside of who its meant for.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Forgive me for stating the obvious at this late point, but it suddenly struck me. Why would a Christian group wish to discriminate against members?

    I guess they missed 1 Timothy 1:15 during bible study:

    Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.
    Is the Christian club suggesting that they are without sin?

    If so, then why do they need Christ?

    Mark 2:17 And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    I can't help but think that they need a remedial class on Jesus 101.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 06-30-10 at 03:05 PM.

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    Re: Court: Christian group can't bar gays [and] get funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Forgive me for stating the obvious at this late point, but it suddenly struck me. Why would a Christian group wish to discriminate against members?

    I guess they missed 1 Timothy 1:15 during bible study:

    Is the Christian club suggesting that they are without sin?

    If so, then why do they need Christ?

    I can't help but think that they need a remedial class on Jesus 101.
    I think the key line of their statement is in regards to "unrepentant".

    Essentially, those they believe are sinners who have no issue with their sin, embrace their sin, promote their sin, advocate their sin, think there's nothing wrong with their sin, and feel they have no need for forgiveness of their sin nor feel that they should repent for it.

    Essentially by adding in unrepentant, they are not condemning all sinners, but simply sinners who refuse to acknowledge their sin or attempt to correct their sinful ways but instead fully and completely indulge in it without apology or desire for absolution.

    Additionally, I'm no scholar but I'm pretty sure the bibles a rather large book, made up by more than a few individual lines, and that attempting to take a few lines about jesus's personal acts and suggesting that if individuals do not act exactly like jesus in all ways shapes or forms that it is impossible for one to be "christian" in practice.

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