Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

Agent Ferris said:

I blame our own government for failing to provide for the security which they are Constitutionally bound to protect and defend, and what's more they have actually become destructive of our security because they will go after people who defend their own property.

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Enlightened. Blaming our own government. Thats a step in the right direction

Psychoclown said:

Should we gun down jaywalkers too? Afterall they are also guilty of a crime! I can see it now, a glorious field of sniper towers across our urban landscape gunning down any who dare cross outside the designated crosswalk.

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Let's get those who don't yield at crosswalks either, why you are at it...

Agent Ferris said:

Except their borders were designed to keep people in.

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Great Wall of China would be a better anology. The Great Wall was designed to keep out barbarians from the north. Not all that effective though as part or all of China was conquered by several "barbarian" groups invading from north of the wall...

Orion said:

This is basically what it comes down to. Is the U.S. prepared to invest the resources into building a wall that huge and maintaining it?

Your government should've thought twice before creating and signing NAFTA. It started this. We thought that it was a good idea to increase trade liberalization of all goods non-human, while trying to restrict human mobility. This is what neo-liberals don't seem to understand: you can't liberalize trade while shutting out the people. They will also want to move to where the money is going.

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You are missing an important element here. The hope with NAFTA is that Mexico's economy would improve and develop with open access to American and Canadian markets. However, what they did NOT count on would be the intensification of Chinese neo-mercantilist policies that resulted in many of the jobs that would show up in Mexico actually would be set up in China instead.

Objective Voice said:

And that's why Pres. Obama has continuously called for changing the tax codes to provide incentives for U.S. companies to bring jobs back to the U.S.

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Changing the tax codes aren't going to make a significant impact in this area. Getting tough on China's various neo-mercantilist policies will be the only way to get at them, and unfortunately, while Obama talked a tough game for a few months, when push came to shove, he let the dictators at Zhongnanhai shove him around.

Agent Ferris said:

Take over Northern Mexico? Oh wait Los Zetas has already done that and they haven't seemed to notice.

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The United States already took over northern Mexico the last time Mexican forces tried entering U.S. territory. You know there was a movement to get President Polk to annex ALL of Mexico that time around. So, does the U.S. do it again? How long before the U.S. has to go into the northern part of the rump Mexican state after that? Is THAT really the long-term solution?

ludahai said:

The United States already took over northern Mexico the last time Mexican forces tried entering U.S. territory. You know there was a movement to get President Polk to annex ALL of Mexico that time around. So, does the U.S. do it again? How long before the U.S. has to go into the northern part of the rump Mexican state after that? Is THAT really the long-term solution?

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It was a reference to Los Zetas already conquering Northern Mexico and the Mexican Government being incapable of stopping them, oh they've conquered U.S. territory too.

Agent Ferris said:

Take over Northern Mexico? Oh wait Los Zetas has already done that and they haven't seemed to notice.

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Didnt know they were running the place... you saying the mexican flag is going to have a giant Z on it from now on? Did they replace the government...


OMG THEYVE TAKEN OOOVER!!! :roll:

Ok, but first, I´ll give you some hints

My issue with Mexican immigrants, legal or illegal, is trying to convert the US to a Mexican culture. If they learned English, kept some Mexican customs and cooking, but became AMERICANS. Thats where everything is cool because, I wouldn't have a big problem (except the illegal bull****).

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Yes, the mexicans come to my door knocking telling me, "would you like to convert to mexican" its really annoying. They should really only have as much culture as the white protestant culture deems fit. They can cook their little tacos and beans and things but theyd better not speak spanish amongst themselves or id certainly have to post on the internet about it.

they can keep their cooking :roll:

SE102 said:

Didnt know they were running the place...

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That's because you're ignorant. Los Zetas not the Mexican government runs Northern Mexico.

you saying the mexican flag is going to have a giant Z on it from now on? Did they replace the government...

OMG THEYVE TAKEN OOOVER!!! :roll:

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The Mexican government no longer has the capacity to exercise exclusive authority in Northern Mexico, they have lost sovereignty there. This is not some common street gang or drug kingpins we're talking about here we're talking about a highly disciplined organization with a military command structure which was founded and is still controlled by a special forces unit of trained assassins armed to the teeth with unlimited funds and resources which is willing to kill anyone (and I mean anyone) who gets in their way, there is no way to secure the border other than to resort to a war footing and that means a no man's land along the border with anti-personel mines and shoot on site authorization for our border guards. These guys make Pablo Escobar look like a *****.

Agent Ferris said:

Mexico is not our damn responsibility, if you haven't noticed we have our own ****ing problems. Furthermore; I don't blame the illegals, but they are none of my ****ing concern, I blame our own government for failing to provide for the security which they are Constitutionally bound to protect and defend, and what's more they have actually become destructive of our security because they will go after people who defend their own property.

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That might help a little, but America is one big cheeseburger to the Mexican looking for a better life. If they can't get a job, they'll take the free welfare and handouts America loves to give out - even if it's crossing the border long enough to deliver their pregnant wife across the border to get that automatic citizenship. Let's face it, we have a welfare for every occasion, for every demographic... the formerly known ACORN could explain it all to them and would probably give them Spanish printed pamphlets explaining how to get a car, apartment, food stamps etc...

The "making Mexico better" argument is actually insightful, but that's Mexico's job, not ours. And while it sounds like world wide philanthropy gone wild, I think we've had a belly full of nation building already thank you. No good deed goes unpunished. Those we help out of poverty and oppression today get to create generations of future peoples benefiting from our money and our spilled blood to spit on us and resent our involvement. The last thing I think we need to do is more nation building.

First step:
1. Secure the border - not 100%, but I'll settle for 90%.
2. Enforce I-9 and businesses from hiring
3. Remove the anchor baby and welfare handouts
4. Provide working visa's for existing illegals and put them to the back of the line for legal immigration. Revoke visa's where illegals do not apply for citizenship and deport them.
5. Overhaul the INS system to make it more efficient and less expensive/time consuming for legal immigrants to apply, appeal and complete the process.
6. Remove the lawyers from the immigration system as they're getting fat on doing a lot of nothing for years.

That's how you fix the problem. No, politicians do not have the guts to do it as it either cuts into the slave labor market we've got here - or it alienates a future minority voting block. Which is why nothing much will happen. The end.

Agent Ferris said:

It was a reference to Los Zetas already conquering Northern Mexico and the Mexican Government being incapable of stopping them, oh they've conquered U.S. territory too.

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I realize that. The U.S. took over northern Mexico more than 150 years ago... so, we take over the northern part of what is left of Mexico now... how long will THAT solution last when we may have to take over even MORE of Mexico... Not a long term viable solution...

SE102 said:

Yes, the mexicans come to my door knocking telling me, "would you like to convert to mexican" its really annoying. They should really only have as much culture as the white protestant culture deems fit. They can cook their little tacos and beans and things but theyd better not speak spanish amongst themselves or id certainly have to post on the internet about it.

they can keep their cooking :roll:

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Please tell me you didn't really mean that bolded part...

Anyone who seriously thinks we can completely seal one of the largest borders in the world is delusional.

What are we gonna do? Build another ****ing fence for them to climb? Or hey, maybe we should waste our resources further by sending the military down there? The fact is, there are jobs here, there aren't in Mexico, and people who want to come here to work will find a way.

I'm glad Napolitano has the testicular fortitude (if you want to call it that) to say what everyone who has experience trying to regulate immigration (i.e. no one on this forum) already knows.

somepeoplesay said:

Anyone who seriously thinks we can completely seal one of the largest borders in the world is delusional.

What are we gonna do? Build another ****ing fence for them to climb? The fact is, there are jobs here, there aren't in Mexico, and people who want to come here to work will find a way.

I'm glad Napolitano has the testicular fortitude (if you want to call it that) to say what everyone who has experience trying to regulate immigration (i.e. no one on this forum) already knows.

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Yes, and the RESULT of that attitude has now seen an 80 mile strip of Arizona essentially ceded back to mexico...

Or hey, maybe we should waste our resources further by sending the military down there?

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or hey, maybe it's the millitary's JOB to protect this country from INVADERS... the wording I believe is "all enemies foreign and domestic" These illegals have no concern for our laws, no interest in learning them, a disdain for the people, and have been killing the people that get in their way... by those standards it seems pretty cut and dry that we have enemies coming into the country... illegally at that. If the situation isn't handled, you might as well tell just about everyone between texas and california to pack their bags because the Mexicans don't want them there.... at worst they want to fulfill the 'plan of san diego' (that is kill all males 16+)

IT IS NOT a waste of ressources to send the millitary to protect the homeland... a much better use of ressources then in bombing the crap out of third world countries on the other side of the world.

somepeoplesay said:

Anyone who seriously thinks we can completely seal one of the largest borders in the world is delusional.

What are we gonna do? Build another ****ing fence for them to climb? Or hey, maybe we should waste our resources further by sending the military down there? The fact is, there are jobs here, there aren't in Mexico, and people who want to come here to work will find a way.

I'm glad Napolitano has the testicular fortitude (if you want to call it that) to say what everyone who has experience trying to regulate immigration (i.e. no one on this forum) already knows.

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Lay a couple of mines and kill a couple of border jumpers and I guaran-goddamn-tee you that illegal immigration from Mexico will drop down to a trickle.

Agent Ferris said:

Lay a couple of mines and kill a couple of border jumpers and I guaran-goddamn-tee you that illegal immigration from Mexico will drop down to a trickle.

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Well, considering people die trying to cross the border all the time and STILL try and come, I don't think that would be much of a deterrent. I love how conservatives are so quick to have big government come in when it suits their purposes, then claim to have principled opposition when it doesn't. Also, to say these people are "invaders" is straight hyperbole, and yes it would a waste of money and resources to send troops down there. When armed Mexican militias are trying to annex parts of the U.S., then sure, lets go down and kick some ass. This is a civil dispute.

FilmFestGuy said:

It's called being a realist. It's never going to hold everyone off. Part of the reason it's getting so bad in Arizona is because the walls built elsewhere are sending people that direction. As soon as you close it off fully, they'll figure other ways around it. Hell, on the Gaza / Egypt border they've managed to disguise miles long tunnels large enought to drive through.

Build your walls, but until you get at the underlying reasons for it, you've only delayed entry a little bit.

The failure to recognize that is to put bandaids on a growing tumor and claiming to be cancer free.

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Exactly. We need to fix the immigration system as a whole and not just try to stop illegal immigration.

Agent Ferris said:

Lay a couple of mines and kill a couple of border jumpers and I guaran-goddamn-tee you that illegal immigration from Mexico will drop down to a trickle.

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You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

somepeoplesay said:

Anyone who seriously thinks we can completely seal one of the largest borders in the world is delusional.

What are we gonna do? Build another ****ing fence for them to climb? Or hey, maybe we should waste our resources further by sending the military down there? The fact is, there are jobs here, there aren't in Mexico, and people who want to come here to work will find a way.

I'm glad Napolitano has the testicular fortitude (if you want to call it that) to say what everyone who has experience trying to regulate immigration (i.e. no one on this forum) already knows.

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Pretty much.

Agent Ferris said:

Mexico is not our damn responsibility, if you haven't noticed we have our own ****ing problems. Furthermore; I don't blame the illegals, but they are none of my ****ing concern, I blame our own government for failing to provide for the security which they are Constitutionally bound to protect and defend, and what's more they have actually become destructive of our security because they will go after people who defend their own property.

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You should be blaming yourself and please think before you ask why.

somepeoplesay said:

Well, considering people die trying to cross the border all the time and STILL try and come, I don't think that would be much of a deterrent. I love how conservatives are so quick to have big government come in when it suits their purposes, then claim to have principled opposition when it doesn't. Also, to say these people are "invaders" is straight hyperbole, and yes it would a waste of money and resources to send troops down there. When armed Mexican militias are trying to annex parts of the U.S., then sure, lets go down and kick some ass. This is a civil dispute.

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You obviously misunderstand the position of mainstream conservatives. Conservatives by in large wish to reserve Constitutional powers for the federal government, and protecting the border is one of those powers. What Conservatives DO NOT WANT is for the federal government to intrude on matters that are reserved for state and local governments...

pro-bipartisan said:

Exactly. We need to fix the immigration system as a whole and not just try to stop illegal immigration.

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I agree with you... a process that is now many YEARS too late to start on. Effectively because this minor issue was neglected for so long, we're seeing epidemic levels of illegals rushing the border.

Now, as those drug / human smugglers gain more of a foothold they will start increasing what they are bringing off the border, UNTILL, as I've repeated, the area roughly between Texas and California have been ceded back to Mexico.

So, as I've said earlier, that we're willing to bomb countries half way around the world based on 'suspicions' that they 'may' threaten us some time in the future, pre-emptively, illegally, YET when a situation arises with an ACTUAL JUST war going on, nobody cares about this country enough to stop it...

Absolutely disgusting. People calling themselves patriots that are sitting and trying to justify a LEGITIMATE invasion of the country going on.... I tell you, I'm not even american and I want to sign up. (which is a tremendous statement if you look at my previous positions on the wars) That's what WAR is about, it's about protecting your TRIBE FROM FOREIGN INVADERS who aim to kill the men, enslave the children, rape the women, and steal the resources.

You know that feeling when your team wins the game... that's a bastardization of the feeling of watching an army run away defeated, knowing that your skull won't get bashed in, that your family is saved.

Ok, so ultimately, this invasion is a DIRECT threat to anyone that lives in the greater area that was originally mexico... not all, but those most virulantly racist mexicans believe that americans should 'go home' (as in back to europe)... and they will openly call for it... a few choice youtube searches and if your jaw doesn't drop, well... I wouldn't know what to say.

I'm not going to mince words on this : They might not be soldiers coming over the border, but they are most definately enemies of the US and her interests and should be treated as such. If you're going to aid them through your inaction and allowing these assaults and territory grabs, as Obama has been doing (and will likely continue to do), then simply put YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO THE US! Allright?

Edit : All that said : if a person comes to the country legally, black, brown, red, blue, whatever... if they come legally and respect the laws of the land then they are my friends and I welcome them.

How bad does it have to get before YOU get up and want to do something about it??? as I've said, it's not even my fight and this is already blatant enough to sound an alarm. I care about the US because if your country falls to a tyranny then Canada will follow behind not long after.

somepeoplesay said:

Well, considering people die trying to cross the border all the time and STILL try and come, I don't think that would be much of a deterrent.

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I seriously doubt that crossing a few stretches of desert in which people put up water and food stops is as scary as crossing a mine field and going up against heavily armed troops with shoot on site authorization.

I love how conservatives are so quick to have big government come in when it suits their purposes, then claim to have principled opposition when it doesn't.

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A) If there is a legitimate roll for the state it is to provide for the protection and defense of the security of the people.

B) This problem can be solved without state intervention, however, not only has the state not lived up to its constitutional obligations to defend and protect the security of the people but if the people were to invoke their natural right to collective self defense of property the state would go after them. The Federal Government will not aid in shutting down the borders with the use of lethal force but I guarantee if militias were organized at the local level the Feds would be there the next day to stop them.

Also, to say these people are "invaders" is straight hyperbole, and yes it would a waste of money and resources to send troops down there. When armed Mexican militias are trying to annex parts of the U.S., then sure, lets go down and kick some ass. This is a civil dispute.

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Los Zetas has already taken over nearly the entirety of North America and have conquered large swaths of the South West United States making them no go zones for U.S. citizens. This is not some common street gang or drug cartel we're talking about here we're talking about a highly disciplined organization with a military command structure which was founded and is still controlled by a special forces unit of trained assassins armed to the teeth with unlimited funds and resources which is willing to kill anyone (and I mean anyone) who gets in their way, there is no way to secure the border other than to resort to a war footing and that means a no man's land along the border with anti-personel mines and shoot on site authorization for our border guards.

pro-bipartisan said:

You should be blaming yourself and please think before you ask why.

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Thought about it and still have to ask why? And no this is not a government of, by, and for the people it is a government of, by, and for the state capitalists.

BmanMcfly said:

Pardon my ignorance on this one, but is the I-9 a federal law??

If so, then it's already been shown that the feds are NOT interested (regardless of the color / stripe of the president) in stopping illegal immigration...

This was all outlined in the SPP documents... the government intends to let it get SO BAD that the people give up and accept what Obama says.

This may be a stretch, but with the BP spill now threatening most all gulf states, and I've heard talk of a potential need for mass evacuations, but should that occur, can you imagine how many illegals would swoop in knowing that there was nobody around to stop them??

So, while I agree with your intention, the government has shown no interest in actually diong that though.

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Every employer is required by FEDERAL LAW (passed in the 1986) to ascertain and document the working status of all employees. This includes documenting citizenship or working status by the employer personally reviewing social security card, passport, driver's license, birth certificate and working papers. The employer then attestst to this via the I-9 form. The employer is subject to fines of up to $10,000 each undocumented worker.

From the USCIS website:

Purpose of Form :
All U.S. employers must complete and retain a Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and relate to the individual and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form.

About Form I-9 and E-Verify

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) seeks to control illegal immigration by eliminating employment opportunity as an incentive for unauthorized persons to come to the United States, by prohibiting the hiring or continued employment of aliens whom employers know are unauthorized to work in the United States. To comply with the law, all U.S. employers must verify the employment eligibility and identity of all employees hired to work in the United States after November 6, 1986 by completing Employment Eligibility Verification forms (Forms I-9) for all employees, including U.S. citizens. Employers who hire or continue to employ individuals knowing that they are not authorized to be employed in the United States may face civil and criminal penalties.


My point is not about making a new law as a good law is already on the books. Its about enforcing what already exists. If the feds started raiding home builders, landscape companies, meat packing plants, fast food restaurants and asserting this fines, the illegal worker issue would end rather quickly and much cheaper than building walls and racially profiling. Neither Republican nor Democrat really has the political will to do what is right and proper here. The outrage of the citizenry should be bi-partisan outrage. If you think one part is at fault and the other party the good guy, then you are only showing your ignorance on the issue.